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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bewl Valley
    Posted: 24 Jun 15 at 10:45pm
I think that the problem with many sailing clubs model is that the subs are set at a level to achieve breakeven or a marginal profit.  Also your typical racing dinghy sailor is an optimist.  And we all want our clubs to be inclusive and not to see potential competitors leave the club due to high subs.  This all conspires to leave clubs very exposed to any variance to forecast income or expenditure.  In the case of Bewl, at the rent level (let alone rates) I am amazed they have survived so long.
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 15 at 11:14pm
Originally posted by limey

Theres no reason why young sailors can't be subsidised . Find it amazing that people will happily pay 10 - 15+ K for a new dinghy and then begrudge a fraction of that to have somewhere nice to sail. 10 pounds a week for membership  and boat space is excessive ; really !!!!!!! I think you only have to look at the average weekly attendance at most sailing clubs to see it aint working at the moment. Carry on and Bewl will be the first of many 

So do you have access to comprehensive stats?  At one of my clubs membership is rising.  The other is at its limit.  And so is participation.  One is cheap as chips but in a lovely spot with all tide and good quality racing.  The other has much higher production values and is as close to the Country Club as I would ever want to get (has a pool....).

Perhaps overall particpation/membership isn't dipping hard?  Just moving.  Although I reckon we're about to lose a significant proportion of 1100 sailors from Kent to the BVSC demise.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 15 at 11:16pm
Gosh, which club has a pool?
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 15 at 11:22pm
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 15 at 11:30pm
I'd tend to agree with Matt given what I see at local clubs. There has definitely been a shift away from travellers circuits and members seem to want more social sailing rather than racing, with chilled out evenings with the kids splashing around in oppies and toppers, the odd die hard out practising his manoeuvres while the rest have a cheeky beer and a BBQ. It's not my bag being a through and through dinghy racer but it seems popular, and as I get older and my kids grow up it does appeal more!

I am intrigued by the idea of a sailing club with a pool. What's wrong with the lake/sea?
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 15 at 11:35pm
Originally posted by limey

Jim , i think you are missing the point. You are right most people can't afford 10-15K on a new boat but I'm sure 10 a week club membership isn't beyond the average person. I would hardly call that the domain of the fat cat. , Sailing clubs won't survive unless they start turning losses into profit .Alternatively we can all bury our heads in the sand, complain about the cost of sailing,continue as we have for years with little or no evolution in the way our clubs are run and watch the sport die !!

A quick search indicates that those in the middle range of income spend a total of 10 pounds per week on ALL forms of sport and recreation.*  In that context, spending another 10 pounds per week just on club membership seems quite significant.


* assuming 4 people per family, all spending the same percentage of the household r&l budget; figures taken from the ONS.


Edited by Chris 249 - 25 Jun 15 at 3:33am
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 15 at 11:48pm
BBC reports 600 current members - that's quite a dip from other numbers noted here at peak and on Wiki - and I would suggest a result of factors outside of the control of the landlord and f**k all to do with WHUFC season tickets, reverse snobbery and being an apologist for standard investment practices through real estate deals and lease agreements.

Our club is also slowing returning to positive membership growth- having a full puddle and decent fleet racing seems to be a big draw. A decent in house training function seems vital too- and our main man has an enviable conversion rate from course to member.

I hope we don't suffer a similar fate down the line, it's not like we can rely on long standing dinghy sailors to actually have a fair judgement on the value propositions when the rent rises. In the main they'd rather penny pinch and scrub each other's crap from the bogs than do what normal people do and employ a cleaner for a communal property.

Edited by kneewrecker - 24 Jun 15 at 11:58pm
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 15 at 11:52pm
Itchenor has a pool? It has a perfectly good muddy reach for swimming.

Our club owns it,s own land and the beach. It makes good money and has what some would call unbusinesslike sub's. Those that pay rent are the ones that are more likely to struggle. If they put the sub's up as limey suggests then clubs like ours will thrive even more.
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 15 at 11:59pm
Not necessarily- faced with the prospect of (assumed) smaller waters, only PY racing and God-knows how many duties, I'll change class to the mountain bike.....

Edited by kneewrecker - 25 Jun 15 at 12:00am
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Posts: 64 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Caveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 15 at 12:26am
As with most things in life, I believe the truth re Bewl is rather more complex than suggested by other contributors. I also think it would be very unfair to lay the blame on current committee members.  

I ceased to be a member of Bewl a few years ago, but I know a little of the background as things had been unravelling for quite a while.  

Bewl is a largish club by sailing club standards. However, the level of active involvement from members was mixed. In recent years the number of boats to be seen sailing on a sunny Sunday could be very small , particularly outside of the summer holidays. For a significant proportion of the membership, the club apparently provided little more than an expensive boat park. Many decent boats would sit forlorn and neglected in the boat park for months and sometimes years (be ready for a a glut of rotomoulds about to hit the market as people are forced to move their boats). 

I think the rot may have set in a few years ago when the club started to take on a growing number of employees - a club manager, "bosuns" training staff etc. Salaries and overheads (besides rent) grew and the focus seemed to move away from the core activity of racing to teaching and training. There was considerable investment in "club boats" and ribs required to provide the training. Questions were raised about how profitable the training and teaching activities really were and not everyone was satisfied with the assurances given. 

When responsibility for the  management of a club shifts to employees as opposed to volunteers I think there is a risk that the club could become less responsive to the needs of its members. Also members could become a bit less enthusiastic about volunteering.

Subs went up, particularly for older members, who had previously enjoyed very favourable rates. That seemed to many like a bad idea as it had always been the older, retired members who had given  up their time to undertake unpaid work for the club.

Then there was the low water problem that had been caused by pumping out from the reservoir during periods of low rainfall to replenish river levels up. It could make launching a total pain. At a time when membership numbers and subscriptions were falling, the rent was massively hiked. As there were concerns about the club's difficult financial position some people may have been put off renewing their memberships. 

Contrary to what a couple of others have suggested, my family and I loved Bewl. It was a very friendly and welcoming club blessed with a a fantastic location. However, there are other very good clubs nearby where membership costs are much lower such as Bough Beech, Weir Wood and Chipstead.

I wish all the Bewl members luck and hope that a new club will emerge again in due course.


Edited by Caveman - 25 Jun 15 at 12:31am
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