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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Boat Tests
    Posted: 27 May 15 at 11:23am
Reading that Bull 7000 thread, I felt compelled to answer thus..

"That's an interesting small boat and boat test it seems to have a swivel pole with a bit more efficient system than the Alto and they speak quite highly of it..

Shame the dinghy market doesn't have the same attitude, either to the system or boat tests as detailed."

Wouldn't it be cool if dinghy were tested in the same manner?

Also note the assy pole appears to have gone down well, I've no idea what has happened to the concept in lead mines since but that boat seemed very avant garde for the period..


Edited by Woodburner - 27 May 15 at 11:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 15 at 12:12pm
Hi there G Minor!
Spot on. There really ought to be some rules about this- certainly I'd not want testers from deep within the industry. But even if you allowed a cranky old grump to run the test, you have to ask if it will ever get published. As I proved to my cost, rocking the boat (even if it is only telling it as it is) just won't happen in this modern media era.
Then there is the nature of the test. Our weather being what it is, you could have a flat calm or a raging blast - does this make the test meaningful - no more than if it was a nice sunny F4, for what does that tell us about a boat (other than you'll get good pictures).

No - the way to do this is to put a new design out into the real world for 3 months minimum, then get a report on what it is like actually living with the boat - all those little niggles that only surface when you've owned it for a while. Crucially, much of the time needs to be spent in that club environment, for it is there that you can judge your performance - compared to where you'd be when sailing your own boat. That way, there isn't someone from the builders there to rig and derig, help you launch, sort out any problems.....and then you can answer the $64,000 question - would you buy one!

You're right - none of this is rocket science...but I bet it won't happen!

D
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 15 at 1:09pm
Well in the mountain bike world they do long term tests as well as one offs, that test showed actual performance up and down wind in different wind speeds, which are then all drawn to an average.

I'm not suggesting this as a panacea for handicaps although some thing needs to be done to address the coast v inland bias of the current system, but from totally disregarding that boat, having read that review and test, it totally changed my mind to the point I'd at least give it the once over if our paths ever crossed, which is what media is all about, social, printed or online broadcast.

As to having the suppliers present at a test, nope, if reasonably competent dinghy media types are not up to whatever it is you're testing then what hope has the public got, so they should get tested warts and all and if they won't go together right, you print it that way, give them a right to reply, but sorry if the test aint meaningful and occasionally negative, then nobody will pay any mind to it when it is a rave review.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 15 at 4:27pm
Many manufacturers seem to have boats around for demo purposes. Perhaps those who sail them for demos should be encouraged/obliged to write something up afterwards. Somehow you then need to get that compiled and published, and with no vetoing by the manufacture. You could get some quite useful reports that way.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 15 at 5:56pm
... "firm bilges and straight buttock lines"   phwooar.

But what a good review instead of all this "tacks nicely and behaves well on the shore" lather.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 15 at 12:49pm
Anyone who bought a Bull because that test said it was that much faster than a Melges 24, J/80 and Farr/Platu 25  would probably be very, very disappointed.  The Bull's a great boat but experience seems to indicate that it's not in the league of the straight racing machines.

The fact that there was a often a variation of a knot or more between the speeds recorded for the same boat on different runs in the same recorded breeze indicates the problems involved.  So too does the fact that if you believed the downwind speeds in the test the Farr 25, a 1990s sportsboat, would be slower than the shorter, heavier, under-rigged Farr 727 he designed to fit the IOR rule two decades earlier.  In fact the 1994 designed 1219kg Farr 25 could, according to the test, be slower downwind than a 2000kg 1973 Eygthene 24 IOR boat, or the shorter '70s designed Sonata 7.

Hmmm...........  back in the day we tried doing this sort of test.  It's really, really, really hard to get anything approaching accurate information from it, because speed varies so much according to sailing technique, gusts etc, as we all know so well.




Edited by Chris 249 - 28 May 15 at 1:06pm
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Woodburner View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 15 at 12:54pm
Then again there's no pleasing the anoraks.. Even the stripey ones..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 15 at 3:02pm
If the stats you get are misleading, then that is surely worse than not having them at all. Looks pretty in a pie chart, but that is about all.

For me, a boat test should give an impression of what a person thought of a boat to sail (hopefully in a variety of conditions and maybe in different sailing waters, but this is unlikely), what market the boat is aimed at and contain some pretty pictures to make me think about actually going for a test sail myself in the boat. If someone who's views I respect tells me about their experiences with a boat, then I can make a judgement call as to whether the boat MAY be for me. Past that, I can then make decisions for myself.

Trouble is, when all boat tests are peaches and cream, lacking in the nitty gritty of real life, it is very difficult to make the 1st decision as to whether the boat is worth test sailing at all. After all, I'd not want to waste my time and that of a boat owner or even salesman if the boat simply isn't what I'm looking for, but the bland write up didn't make that clear. "You'll piss it in on the gybes unless you happen to be world class", or "You'll need big guns to hold the mainsheet upwind" are 2 comments I never read about certain boats which shall remain nameless.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 15 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by Rupert

 "You'll piss it in on the gybes unless you happen to be world class", or "You'll need big guns to hold the mainsheet upwind" are 2 comments I never read about certain boats which shall remain nameless.

That's exactly what I mean, but having said that about the RS300 say, how much pressure do you think your ad man would be under, or the chorus of fanboys telling you you're a crap sailor...

But it needed to be said and if they were as good sailors it wouldn't actually stop them buying it would it allegedly?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 15 at 4:33pm
Surely in this day of social media, it is easy to do a review that is independent of advertising revenue? Just stick one on FB or something. The difficulty is convincing everyone that such review has credibility and isn't astroturfing or from someone with little of idea of what's what.
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