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turnturtle View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 May 15 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by chrisg

Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by Oli

Originally posted by turnturtle

 
Thanks for the response - it's interesting hearing your perspective.

One of the ideas I had for this app would be that could re-order the boats by simply dragging and dropping.... much like re-ordering a playlist on an mp3 app.

This would enable you sort the race order, more or less, ahead of the finish.  It would have no bearing on the results or data collection - it would simply be a useful app feature to keep the list view organised in a pragmatic manner.  


perhaps if it naturally reordered into lowest py to the top so the most obvious on the water finish order is likely to be correct with the drag and drop to re list if and when required.

that would be a sweet option for sure... it could even re-order in, sssshhh, personal handicaps  LOL

And Yes Chris, you re right, the Starcross one.  I'd be interested in discussion off the forum if this is something you would like to implement at Draycote, especially if v2 can accommodate mobile devices.  

Are you up tonight? Happy to discuss anytime. Have you seen Marks system demo on their club website? It re-orders boats by PY in to the order it thinks they should appear on the next lap too! Obviously it can't account for capsizes or retirmenets but they were generally in close to the correct order which meant you didn't have to scroll up or down the list too much which helped immensely with a large fleet.

I was 'till I saw the forecast ;-)  Two wheels and a kebab sound more promising....

I'll have a look at that demo, it sounds good.



Edited by turnturtle - 13 May 15 at 2:13pm
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gordon1277 View Drop Down
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Posts: 665 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 15 at 4:35pm
Hi Woodburner
My name is Gordon Kinngston so now do me the favour.
Gordon
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Woodburner View Drop Down
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Joined: 13 Mar 15
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Posts: 332 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 15 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by gordon1277

Hi Woodbotherer
Actually if you read my post I compared the Zero to the Blaze not the Phantom.
I believe you have no problem with the Blaze py.
Do me a favour and stop sl*gging of the volunteers who run the PY group whilst they dont get it right all the time they are working with the info clubs send in and that is done by mostly volunteers as well all trying to give us the best racing they can.

So Gordon I assume this post is what you're referring to? I'm not particularly happy with the Blaze handicap either especially when it gets a small rig suddenly in an event that i attend annually and this particular year it's blowing force 5-6 and it can randomly award itself a yardstick of 1071 and steal the chocolates.

As to the 'volunteers who run the PYAG, I didn't ask them to volunteer, and knowing life as I well do, each will have his or her own particular agenda I've no doubt. Why in fact do we even need such a group? The RYA stated that they (the group) are shackled to the data and that is all. Their role it must then follow is purely to award punitive ENs to new boats, thus protecting their own little domains.

They are anonymous? Why? Why would you do something that you have to be anonymous because it is obviously so wrong and is going to attract criticism, sorry you do that, you deserve the stick and what is it that they do that can not in this day and age be computerised?

Then we read there are other systems being trialled by other clubs, why are these not being beta tested in the public domain for all to see, hell this bollox has been going on the ten years I've been around how many years were there before that, that things have been festering.

So, no, this is one favour I'll not grant, ask me another, if they don't want criticism don't do the damned job or at least don't be so crass in attitude to new boats for starters.


Edited by Woodburner - 13 May 15 at 8:12pm
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Oli View Drop Down
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Posts: 1020 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 15 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by Woodburner

Originally posted by gordon1277

Hi Woodbotherer
Actually if you read my post I compared the Zero to the Blaze not the Phantom.
I believe you have no problem with the Blaze py.
Do me a favour and stop sl*gging of the volunteers who run the PY group whilst they dont get it right all the time they are working with the info clubs send in and that is done by mostly volunteers as well all trying to give us the best racing they can.

So Gordon I assume this post is what you're referring to? I'm not particularly happy with the Blaze handicap either especially when it gets a small rig suddenly in an event that i attend annually and this particular year it's blowing force 5-6 and it can randomly award itself a yardstick of 1071 and steal the chocolates.

Down to the class not the PYAG.  Agree that sort of tampering with class hadji caps for events is wrong and is in my view a gross manipulation of the system, certainly doesn't make me think highly of the class that's for certain. but that's my opinion and others are free to disagree

As to the 'volunteers who run the PYAG, I didn't ask them to volunteer, and knowing life as I well do, each will have his or her own particular agenda I've no doubt. Why in fact do we even need such a group? The RYA stated that they (the group) are shackled to the data and that is all. Their role it must then follow is purely to award punitive ENs to new boats, thus protecting their own little domains.

Maybe their agenda is to try and benefit dinghy handicap racing as a whole on the macro scale, rather than just the micro scale of single class gain.

The whole system needs a "dog to bark at the pilot", that's what I see the group as, the dog to make sure the pilot, in this case the clubs and volunteers, that submit haven't accidentally made a cock up.

They are anonymous? Why? Why would you do something that you have to be anonymous because it is obviously so wrong and is going to attract criticism, sorry you do that, you deserve the stick and what is it that they do that can not in this day and age be computerised?

Suggest you volunteer to get on the group, nothing like working the problem from the inside.

Then we read there are other systems being trialled by other clubs, why are these not being beta tested in the public domain for all to see, hell this bollox has been going on the ten years I've been around how many years were there before that, that things have been festering.

Would be good if we had a place where other clubs could discuss what they're trialling and if it's worth collaborating on.....free of toys out of pram behaviour when we don't get what we want.  I know there are conferences on at the beginning of the year, does this sort of thing get discussed and moved out of just the forum stage? Perhaps someone Should start a development thread on this here maybe, and how about one for the app too.  We can all chuck in our sixpence worth then. 

So, no, this is one favour I'll not grant, ask me another, if they don't want criticism don't do the damned job or at least don't be so crass in attitude to new boats for starters.

So far from the d-zero sailed at our club (a good older helm) against blazes (poly tins and epoxy carbons) with top 10 helms and mid fleeters at the nationals is that in a range of conditions it sits with the poly boats on the water.  Our club blaze local handicap is around 983 atm I believe so if the slower (inexperienced) helmed poly boats are 40-60 below that you're national number zero handicap is about right at 1030 - 1040, as he's just learning the boat and I'm sure will improve on that.  This is of course just what I have observed and don't have the numbers yet to back that up, but I'm pretty confident it will.  What I'm getting at is that you see the handicap as unfair on your water and I don't on my stretch of the British Coast, must be something that could solve that........


Edited by Oli - 13 May 15 at 9:02pm
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Koops View Drop Down
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Posts: 52 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Koops Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 15 at 10:27pm
Hi Gordon. I've only just had the opportunity to read this thread so sorry for delay in replying. I am not making any claim about the absolute handicap numbers for the 3 classes that raced together, simply that the Phants were consistently faster. All comparisons are based on corrected times so no, the D-Zero is not a bandit cf the blaze. I appreciate that under different conditions eg very light, the relative performances could be different i.e.lims of current system.
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Posts: 52 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Koops Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 15 at 10:34pm
Hi Paul. Paignton used following h/caps for POSH: zero 1040; blaze 1021; Phants 1035.
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Posts: 52 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Koops Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 15 at 11:03pm
I've just checked the 2015 handicap numbers and they show 995 for Phantom which would have given closer corrected times for Blaze and D-Zero.
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chrisg View Drop Down
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Posts: 893 		Post Options Post Options   Quote chrisg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 15 at 7:22am
In case PYS users on here aren't subscribed to Sailwave emails, the latest version of sailwave was released at the weekend so it is now possible to upload all your recent data to the new official PYS site. Please remember this ( http://www.pyonline.org.uk/ ) is the only site to upload to if you wish your data to be included in the official RYA national numbers list. 

It would be great if you could all upload as many races as soon as possible as we will be looking to review EN's shortly so the more information we have to do that with the better.

Thanks for your patience and if your club doesn't currently upload but you would like to know how to get involved either PM me or contact the RYA tech dept.

Chris
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chrisg View Drop Down
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Posts: 893 		Post Options Post Options   Quote chrisg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 15 at 10:08am
Originally posted by Woodburner

Originally posted by The Moo

Originally posted by Woodburner


Well we had eighteen boats out today, our laser fleet has grown to six with another due soon which will make 8 in total when they all show up.
The sun shone and the breeze blew so all in all not a bad day, marred only if you look at the handicap results.



So according to your post a few days back you said you were racing scratch. Is that just you or are all Hythe members adopting this approach?

Those that are interested are keeping yardstick results, those that aren't race scratch - everyones happy or not, we're just not bothered with sending results in and I'm not about to encourage it, what we do is so far out of tune with all that surrounds the yardstick system there would be little point, the system as it stands should be called the Puddlesham Protectors Yardstick System. The Lake club I belong to take the opposite view but for what goes on there the system is very relevant and can be easily managed as it is enclosed water and works in concert with what the system has become.
Sailing on a lake and the chequer board nature demands such a system, sailing on the sea with the breeze in your hair, open water, waves and an endless horizon is fun enough in itself, who cares what a bunch of buffers huddled in their wooden huts wondering how they're going to protect their sailing coffins from the onslaught of the modern world think - f**k them and sail it anyway..

Ah well, that "not botheredness" didn't last very long. I see Hythe and Saltwood are uploading results to the PYS. Excellent news. It might not be the club that's out of tune with all that surrounds the yardstick system....



Edited by chrisg - 26 May 15 at 10:10am
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