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Rupert View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 May 15 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by JimC

The problem always is data quality Rupert. We have three or four people who do results at our club, and we'll have class names like RS200, RS 200, and even RS2OO in various places and various PCs. Somehow at some stage there's got to be a process that cleans it up and converts them all to the same format so every RS200 result goes in the system... Then at our club we let people sail different classes in a series on a single entry, so you've got to disentangle the results for when Fred was sailing his RS300, not the usual RS200.



I suppose what I'm seeing in my head is a slick team of well paid RYA number crunchers spending all that money they get from dinghy clubs and dinghy sailor personal memberships working like beavers on all the thousands of returns they get from hundreds of clubs all round the country, correcting spellings, contacting people to check whether Fred was really sailing a 300 that day, or is it a mistake, checking that day's results against the local weather to see whether a particular result is due to conditions or crew skill factor. I see maybe 4 people working 40 hours a week on this.

And at the end of it someone like WB saying how crap it is.

I know, the only reality there is the final line. It does take effort by the users to make the system work.
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Woodburner View Drop Down
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Posts: 332 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 15 at 1:45pm
Originally posted by Rupert

 Add your own to it, and maybe you'll get those magic numbers where the Laser sails off 800 and the EPS and Alto off 1250.

No, I'm not going to, the system is wrong and until there is a better one in place with a more logical reasoning behind it, I'm no longer interested, the moment has passed f**k them.
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Oli View Drop Down
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Posts: 1020 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 15 at 1:56pm
woodburner how do you know it fails you havent even tried it yet.  You've only let the moment pass you because you know it'll most likely prove your misgivings as fallacy, and i didnt think you were worried about what people think of you on the internet?
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 15 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by Woodburner

 the moment has passed f**k them.

so what's happening at Hythe?  

Have you binned off recording the times and just 'go race' instead?  It would be an interesting exercise if this approach adds or detracts from number of active participants.  
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 15 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by Woodburner

 the moment has passed f**k them.

so what's happening at Hythe?  

Have you binned off recording the times and just 'go race' instead?  It would be an interesting exercise if this approach adds or detracts from number of active participants.  


So anyone who wants to win at Hythe needs to be sailing the fastest boat out there. Given the conditions, that won't be a skiff, but something designed in the 1950s - an Osprey, maybe? I'm sure that would go down well with Mr "bin everything not designed this century".
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Simon Lovesey View Drop Down
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Posts: 349 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Simon Lovesey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 15 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by craiggo


What I dont want to happen is that everyone stays quiet about bugs or user issues and the RYA and Simon go around patting each other on the back for a job well done while in the background, users are struggling, hence why I wanted people to share their issues.
 

For clarification,  I and SailRacer are no longer supporting the RYA PYS.  Nevertheless if clubs still want to benefit from the analysis of the massive SailRacer results database and new analytical features such as participation dashboards,  they can still submit handicap data to SailRacer.  
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 15 at 3:00pm
Simon, when you say "no longer supporting", it can have 2 meanings. I assume you mean working with the data, rather than no longer believing in the yardstick and setting up a rival system?
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Woodburner View Drop Down
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Posts: 332 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 15 at 3:00pm
We've binned it off and are racing scratch, with a couple of bottles of Tattinger on it, we were going to have a serious go at getting boards accepted but f**k that as well, if they can't live up to their word, I'm certainly not going to help them they're just jobsworths with no enthusiasm for the sport so who gives a sh*t. 
If things fall into place with a few other things that are diverting my attention and I can get a web monkey on it, I might have a go at launching an alternative, some time in the future based on a central fixed craft that won't alter, and with a part data part fact engine driving it, but that remains a pipe dream for the foreseeable future. You can't work with idiots that can't see something could be so much better so the only way to go about it is to just do it, then folk can choose and maybe put the buffers on the PYAG out to grass. Wink LOL But for now I race scratch at Hythe for beer tokens and champers at season end and with any luck I have a class of Solutions at the lake building which race pretty much scratch against Lasers anyway, so as I said the moment has passed.


Edited by Woodburner - 07 May 15 at 3:06pm
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 15 at 3:08pm
There's no handicapping at the local running club, nor at the body combat class at the Leisure Centre.  

I don't know if the local cycling clubs around here run some form of handicap based on who has the best kit- I think they just pitch up in groups of similarish ability.  They're all over-subscribed, I know that much.

Theres no handicapping at the equestrian events I support my family at, although doing well with our old cart horse does raise a mixed reaction- that said, we only care about those who say well done, or who are genuinely surprised/supportive/encouraging, not the snooty ones who spend 20 grand plus on a beast to inevitably get rag-dolled down the arena.    

We had well over 100 windsurfers at the NWF all racing together - no handicaps, and generally speaking, windsurfers, or certainly these ones, rarely race.  I think most reported they enjoyed it and would do it again.

So it would be interesting to see if your sailing club can roll with the 'beach vibe' racing scratch - group exercise and social sports are on the increase, dinghy sailing isn't*.   I will wait (patiently) to see if this new approach garners more participation - and especially more diverse participation than the 'golf club on water' most sailing clubs seem to be.  


* edit: Laser sailing at our club and reportedly at Oxford is massively increasing year on year, but that's not handicap racing.




Edited by turnturtle - 07 May 15 at 3:15pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 15 at 3:47pm
Given WB's attitude on these posts, I think the nearby clubs should be making some space in the boat park. It isn't the type of racing that matters, but the way people act, and deciding that the rest of the world is totally stupid and if their views don't match his then they are simply wrong is not a good way to get this wonderful vibe going really, is it?

Pretty sure in horse racing not only do they have weight handicaps, but will also have races for different ages of horse and various other things. I've never seen a kid's pony trying to race some huge racehorse, but if they did, I expect they wouldn't do it off scratch and then shrug when none of the ponies bothered to turn up any more. Why would a kid in a Tera bother to go racing when they have to beat a Contender on the water to win? More likely, they will go to a club where they can either race other Teras, or at least get handicap racing. Now, if you had several Teras and several Tazs, or similar, then I can see scratch racing working, just as I can for the Solution and the Laser, if they really do work out to be similar speed.
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