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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS aero
    Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 1:46pm
Until they brought in restrictions the Skiff classes typically used 4 rigs. What range of rig sizes do (or did since I see the RSX has a one size rig rule) racing boards typically use?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 1:54pm
The 380 Raceboard Class is fairly open - up to 9.5m for men, 8.5 for women and youth:

C.8 SAILS

C.8.1. LIMITATIONS

(a) During an event a maximum of two sails shall be registered and used during an event except when a sail has been lost or accidentally damaged beyond repair. A replacement may be made only with the approval of the Race Committee. The Race Committee shall then attach an event limitation mark to the replacement sail and remove or deface any event limitation mark attached to the replaced sail.

(b) Size

page8image12672

Min

page8image15184

Max

Mast length

6000mm

page8image22216

Min

page8image23568
page8image24040

Max

page8image25232

Internal length of the wishbone boom excluding attachments

page8image27224

3000mm

Minimum

Maximum

Men

9.5 m2

Woman

8.5 m2

Youths

8.5 m2

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by jeffers

I would say this rule should only apply to RS events otherwise if you buy an Aero you now HAVE to buy all 3 rigs or you are at an immediate disadvantage.

nope - two at most.  I can't see anyone my size finding any use whatsoever with the 5m sail.  If it's too windy to use the 7, then imo, it's probably too windy to taking out a beach boat like an Aero.

Similarly a 60kg person would probably see a negligible benefit in the 9m... the extra drag wouldn't be worth the added power to weight gain, but of course that's just conjecture.  

Not conjecture, spot on. 

 I am not light and current thought is I am fastest with a 9 for most conditions. At 15knots I am fully powered everywhere, with controls heaved to the max. Above 15knots ish I either have to pull some board up or blade off. At that point the 7 is going to be faster. I could never see me needing a 5 unless going out in 27-30+knots at which point you would not be racing anyway.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by SimonW99

I am not light and current thought is I am fastest with a 9 for most conditions.

In which case don't you expect to be beaten by someone who *is* light and who changes down rig much sooner?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 2:30pm
It seems highly likely to me that a 7 sailor would benefit from 5 and 9 rigs. Even a 5 sailor would be faster with a 9 in a drifter.

Simon, the class rules seem very clearly to say it is one class with three rigs. And therefore should have one RYA PY number. The handicaps referred to in the class rules can only be for CA events because a. The CA obviously has no right to state a PY for events outside its organisation and b. Such rig swapping appears to break the RRS, which is fine if you've all signed up for it (in a CA event) but isn't fine when others haven't. Aeros can swap the port/stbd rule for all I care at their own events, but you can't do that in a club race!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 2:36pm
The clubs will determine whether the RYA List has 1, 3 or as it currently stands, no published EN as there wasn't sufficient data (AIUI).  

In the interim, the class can publish whatever it sees fit- and in the longer term, it can apply it's own local policy when using the PY system for its traveller class event.  How it manages any fallout, or how it manages its PR against competitors from more traditional class backgrounds, especially if the numbers are grossly different are their own problems- there's a reason why manufacturers and class associations are getting wary of issuing their own numbers, or even commenting on them when they get released.  

I would imagine that give it a few months and the PYAG will publish data-generated ENs- probably for all three sail designs.  I would expect most clubs to use the RYA figure as the baseline, not something in a class document designed for class opens when attendance is a little shaky.


Edited by turnturtle - 30 Mar 15 at 2:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 2:37pm
At GGP this year, there was a big guy (guessing 90kg ish) using a 5 rig, he had used the 9 at virtually every other winter event.  Think he is one of the Chelmarsh boys.  I had a good chat with him at the BM he seemed like a really nice guy...Anyway I digress, he was really, really quick at the GGP.  But even then i think he would of been much quicker in the 7  That was in conditions getting on towards survival in the last race.  I took my Zero out this Sunday in frankly balmy conditions and I now think even if we had multiple rig choices I wouldn't swap down.  I just don't think it would get 'That' windy!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 2:42pm
JimC 
Not sure I get that one. If they are lighter and change down earlier than I have to I would expect the advantage up to the point when I have to blade or pull the board up as I am still efficient.

Peaky, I can't say whether a 5 would get much more out of a 9 than they would a 7 in a drifter as they would be sailing with the worst possible handicap. They would be better off sticking to the 7 and its handicap IMHO. 

I personally think one sail is enough for most. If you want to get two, its probably the most difficult call at 75 KG. If on the sea you might go 5 -7 whereas inland you might go for 7-9. However it is all a bit academic as if I was say 80kg, I would get a 7 only and it would do me fine. Interestingly, out of 24 boats here, I think only 4 people have additional rigs. 

I personally wouldn't have include the PY's or the 'reef' down suggestions in the rules, but I assume its trying to be helpful as EN exists and the option we use seems to work fine. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by Null

At GGP this year, there was a big guy (guessing 90kg ish) using a 5 rig, he had used the 9 at virtually every other winter event.  Think he is one of the Chelmarsh boys.  I had a good chat with him at the BM he seemed like a really nice guy...Anyway I digress, he was really, really quick at the GGP.  But even then i think he would of been much quicker in the 7  That was in conditions getting on towards survival in the last race.  I took my Zero out this Sunday in frankly balmy conditions and I now think even if we had multiple rig choices I wouldn't swap down.  I just don't think it would get 'That' windy!

Well if I had an 8.1m sail for the aero I wouldn't bother with two rigs  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 3:21pm
The difference is that the SailJuice series when these people swapped classes they were given separate results. I do hope for the next series they will be doing the same (I am sure they will).

Also Null don't forget the D-Zero Blue so you could so the same if you wished....

As for comparing to skiffs and windsurfers that is different IMO as the class has developed that way. The Aero was launched as 3 classes and now seems to be moving towards 1 class with 3 rigs.

As I have already said for handicap type open events it is unlikely you will get away with class swapping and having 1 set of results and at a big open event the SIs will likely preclude you from swapping equipment without dispensation from the OA or RC. Anyone doing doing so with the defence that the class rules allow it may find themself subject to a protest of some form.

Just my opinion. At club level is it no real difference to how Lasers have being doing it for years.
Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74
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