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turnturtle View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 9:46am
Originally posted by Peaky

Roger, AIUI those numbers are the numbers to use at class events - somewhat confusingly racing handicap at single class events. They are not the number (for there should be only one) to be used in general open racing, which the RYA will, in the fullness of time, be responsible for calculating/suggesting.

How else would you recommend they do it.... numbers at RS Events are dipping in most fleets.  

One poor sod turned up to the winters in their RS500 and had no one else to sail against.  I hope they're a glass half full kind of crew....  otherwise they came last.  200 numbers weren't much to write about either.  And the Vareo is all-but dead now.   The one class which is showing real promise is the RS300... but that's just Steve and Co making 'boo faces' with flashlights at the end of the tunnel.   

No one races a 10.2 anymore in the 100s.  So clearly RS don't want that to happen with the Aero- what happens if the Aero 7 gets too popular and the 9 fades away, or simply drops below a nominal 'critical mass' at circuit events?  F*ck... RS just lost its Fat Dad offering.... and there are a lot of us.      

I think we all need to remember that these rules are written with a total focus around RS class events- how they impact on club PY racing is not really given much thought.  Taken in isolation of a class organised event, the document and rule set makes sense and seems fair.  But if I were an organiser of club racing, a handicap open or sitting on the PYAG and needed to consider the impact on competitors from other classes, classes who don't write their own PY numbers, I'd probably treat that document with a similar level of contempt in response.  

It would be good to get clarity from the RYA/PYAG as to what input they have had in the drafting of these class rules.  I would assume none...  but I might as well throw it out there, does this explain the apparent stalling of an EN (or indeed 3 of them) from the 2015 release?




Edited by turnturtle - 30 Mar 15 at 9:52am
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Eminoxon View Drop Down
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Posts: 32 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Eminoxon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 9:51am
I read them as being the same as the laser then. You are governed by class rules whether you are at a class event or in a handicap fleet surely? in which case 3 rigs, 3 classes
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 9:57am
The 10.2 on the 100 was a bit of a gybing mare in real wind, whereas the 8.4 was spot on , thats why it died. 

The aero 9 is powerful, but very manageable so I don't see that happening.

The rules are pretty clear, three separate classes. 

 They have taken the opportunity to set out some base handicaps. I guess the handicaps are there for this season as the RYA haven't set an EN. Its the 'Lymington' formula on 'reefing' which seems fair enough but not sure it needed to be in the rules.
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Posts: 332 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 10:10am
Didn't the RS 300 have two rigs? I never read any moaning about them. We're going to have to deal with an RS100 our lead Laser and MPS sailor has had a knee operation and gone for one rather than a Blaze, now he is good, so he'll get yardsticked for the 10.2 rig whatever, but he's a big guy and if he did change down, chances are it will be howling anyway. I'm not sure what happens with the Mackerelati I've noticed my old mate recording both Standard and Radial results in the same series and now the Laser fleet is getting quite large I guess it's a nettle we'll have to grasp, especially now that Radial handicap has reached Bandit territory of epic proportion thanks to the PYAG blunderers.
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 10:36am
Originally posted by Woodburner

Didn't the RS 300 have two rigs?


initially yes- for weight equalisation purposes.  

the class lost favour with it as most of the lightweights found they could easily handle the B rig.... it was an advanced rig for its time.  

I think there's something in the rules still about sticking with one for a season or series or something... tbh, I don't think it makes much difference.  I didn't know of anyone who used an A rig at club level when we had double figures of them out on Wednesday night.
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Posts: 705 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 10:51am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by Woodburner

Didn't the RS 300 have two rigs?


initially yes- for weight equalisation purposes.  

the class lost favour with it as most of the lightweights found they could easily handle the B rig.... it was an advanced rig for its time.  

I think there's something in the rules still about sticking with one for a season or series or something... tbh, I don't think it makes much difference.  I didn't know of anyone who used an A rig at club level when we had double figures of them out on Wednesday night.

That's pretty much spot. A few of the lighter helms who had A (small) rigs moved up to a B (big) rigs when they had gained a bit of experience and learned how to depower the bigger rigs. We got rid of the weight rule a few years ago and you can use whichever rig you like as long as you don't change it more than once a year. The A and B rigs always ran off the same PY so there was never an issue on that score.
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Posts: 332 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 11:00am
Tell me did the A & B rigs both use the same mast?
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Posts: 705 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 11:28am
No, they didn't Graeme. You needed a completely different rig. The A rig sail is only slightly smaller than the B (9.25 sq m against 10 sq m) but the difference lies in the fact that the A rig mast is much bendier so allowing easier de-powering.
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 12:56pm
Most event SIs also state that you must use the same sail(s) for the entire event unless you get permission from the organising authority to substitute. Substitution is usually only allowed in the event of damage.

For club racing it does not matter so much as a lot of Lasers switch between classes and clubs handle this in various ways. Some make you use the fastest handicap, some make you have different sets of results for each class you sail.

I would say this rule should only apply to RS events otherwise if you buy an Aero you now HAVE to buy all 3 rigs or you are at an immediate disadvantage.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 15 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by jeffers

I would say this rule should only apply to RS events otherwise if you buy an Aero you now HAVE to buy all 3 rigs or you are at an immediate disadvantage.

nope - two at most.  I can't see anyone my size finding any use whatsoever with the 5m sail.  If it's too windy to use the 7, then imo, it's probably too windy to taking out a beach boat like an Aero.

Similarly a 60kg person would probably see a negligible benefit in the 9m... the extra drag wouldn't be worth the added power to weight gain, but of course that's just conjecture.  
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