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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Boat Performance Index
    Posted: 26 Mar 15 at 4:13pm
So what if you don't want a personal handicap (as in all probability prior to getting 'into' all this I wouldn't have) then I guess you just sail scratch or the club adds a figure for everyone given in order for it to work the Boats would have to be adjusted to their most optimum (severe)performance. Which is kind of what happens to new boats anyway.

Edited by Woodburner - 26 Mar 15 at 4:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 15 at 4:28pm
Hi Jim
what must add woes to your system is when the py changes as well, do you adjust taking that into account? as a phantom sailor if you added 5% to my handicap because I sailed badly last year with the change in py that would still put me worse of than last year against other classes. Just an example.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 15 at 4:59pm
5% increments are a fairly blunt instrument - roughly 50 points of PY of course, and its not too hard to put new sailors in the right band. A couple of races is often enough, and new regular sailors will have done a couple of races by the time we have a PH series start. There are a few of us who take a guess for new sailors when we've seen them in action. Because its basically an improvers trophy new members aren't usually going to be in the running for the series prize because we won't have seen them improve...

And because its quite a wide range PY changes are rarely very significant. Needs saying yet again, the odd 5 or 10 points of PY rarely makes much difference. Last season a beginner Solo sailor in band 5 was sailing off 1433 at our club in the PH series.

Edited by JimC - 26 Mar 15 at 5:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 15 at 9:07pm
Originally posted by gordon1277

with the change in py that would still put me worse of than last year against other classes.


An interesting thought, he said provocatively and in no way seriously, is that as the PY issued in the each year's list reflects what the actual performance of the classes was in the previous year, one could make a logical case that all prizegivings for the previous year ought to be delayed until after the new numbers have been released, and all the series rescored for what are now known to have been the correct handicap numbers for that season. [ducks, runs for cover]



Edited by JimC - 26 Mar 15 at 9:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 15 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by gordon1277

with the change in py that would still put me worse of than last year against other classes.


An interesting thought, he said provocatively and in no way seriously, is that as the PY issued in the each year's list reflects what the actual performance of the classes was in the previous year, one could make a logical case that all prizegivings for the previous year ought to be delayed until after the new numbers have been released, and all the series rescored for what are now known to have been the correct handicap numbers for that season. [ducks, runs for cover]


Jim,

That is no less reasonable than any of the other suggestions in this crazy thread!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 15 at 7:10am
Except we all know what the outcome would be.... Same people would win it, just as the same people wouldn't attend as they couldn't care less for their series result.

But that's kind of the point often raised against 'PY Bashers' isn't it? Expecting it to work for everyone in isolation on any one given race is expecting too much from it. It needs a decent series run to even out the anamolies.... Too many discards in that series and you take away the systems homogenisation capability.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 15 at 9:44am
Originally posted by sargesail

 
That is no less reasonable than any of the other suggestions in this crazy thread!

So come on then, give us your better idea then.. Oh and something more sensible than sailing in an overblown upturned pudding basin around puddlesham pond ducking the lilly pads. You're in level 7 by the way in case you wondered... LOL


Edited by Woodburner - 27 Mar 15 at 9:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 15 at 11:22am
It is nice to have a thread where people can take a really daft idea and run with it, but it does appear that in real life people buy a boat they like or happens to be around at the time and go sailing in it. If they fancy a race, then they will go and have a race against their friends and clubmates in whatever boat they have, using the yardstick system to give them a result, which probably won't matter too much - all forgotten by the time they get up next morning. What they will remember is the stonking reach, the big wipe out or the aching knees from sailing in no wind.

It is only those who like to dissect the system who really have a problem (maybe the wrong word - too negative in many cases) with it - people like us. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 15 at 11:34am
I think we can all be guilty of thinking we're 'pushing the envelope' from time to time... after all lurking around a dinghy development forum might just suggest a proclivity in that direction.  In reality though you've absolutely nailed it.... it's just a sociable form of sailing different boats against different folks.    

Everyone knows if you want to 'up your game', then in reality you need to get your boat hitched up on a circuit somewhere, or be one of the very fortunate few who have class racing in boats they actually want to own on their doorstep.  

Personally I can't be arsed to drag a boat around the country anymore... and I never did it that much beforehand, it always seemed like such a hassle for relatively little time on the water.  So I have a simple choice... class race Lasers or Solos, or sail a boat I'm better suited to and enjoy sailing more in a handicap fleet.... there isn't a right answer, just a different outlook depending on what I'm expecting from it.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 15 at 11:42am
I'd really like to have a bash at that winter series one day, but all the time they are being such knobs with their yardstick designations it really isn't going to happen and I absolutely refuse to select a bandit just to play along with older is better and retaining the status quo.

So I shall continue to bleat and berate until I see some semblance of fair play being steered towards rather than self interest of particular powerful class, industry or interest groups being served.

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