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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Boat Performance Index
    Posted: 23 Mar 15 at 9:25am
I ran some race training yesterday in a mixture of boats where PY made no difference at all - the first boat over the startline was the winner...

Obviously not a great format for racing in reality, but it did make me think that we are all rather stuck in our ways, thinking about methods to tweak the handicapping here and there, imagining that that will be the great new thing to get more poeple racing. In reality, even the majority of people who race now would hardly notice the difference, or care that much.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 15 at 9:28am
As I said before, turnout at our place in the handicap fleet was greater when no one even took the times, never mind applied the handicap.... Not sure I'd want to go backwards, but food for thought
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 15 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by Peaky

Think your getting a bit carried away in lala land there zippy. The idea is to help organise handicap racing by accepting that it is the new norm. Not strong arming people into predesignated classes.

As someone who makes a self employed living I'm all for light touch, but no touch at all is as bad as too much.


the problem is when you get into the realms of approved official calaenders  etc the slippery slope  starts and that is what both Jimand I were cautioning against ... 

a lot of other sports are far more heavily regulated  as a norm 

any repair or alteration means re-measurement ? combined with inspection of boat and  personal equipment  every time you compete... ? (combined with mandated  personal equipment )

exactly how much more of a touch from the RYA  do you want for adult  'none elite'  racing ? than the current situation 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 15 at 7:53pm
Well, to be fair you did say

that would lead to a   resurgence of 'national' status for chosen classes and only ze national classes vill have the papieren to apear in ze list ... following on from that what about pressure on clubs to return to the  old ways of the only  way  a prosecptive member  can get  admitted  is to sail one of the ideologically  approved classes and  none approved classes are only allowed as second boats ... next stage of course being that open meeting  competitors and people wanting to sail at other locations will have to produce proof of competence and good standing ... next stage after that is that  clubs will  have to pass an inspection  to be allowed new  members  especially beignners  ( i.e. everything the club  does will have to run to the standards of  recognised teaching establishment ).... !


Just one example: currently all the main handicap events are in the depths of winter, to avoid clashing with class events. The implication being that classes see these events as secondary. But in our brave new world of a classless society why should handicap events get the graveyard slot? Some individual clubs have tried to get summer handicaps going, but with no history, a crowded calendar and lots of voices it is very hard to get these off the ground. Which is where our national organising body, be that the RYA or who ever, should step up.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 15 at 8:21pm
Aren't there plenty of handicap events in the summer with things like Fed week and so on? If they haven't proved to gain the same status as some of the winter events: what's that phrase about "can't buck the market"?

But I'd hate the RYA to "step up" and organise events, doubtless at the bigger clubs only, that were somehow official and competed with other club's events. A medium sized club like mine can happily put on half a dozen open events in the summer that serve 20-50 competitors (80 was a bit of a struggle!), but why would you want to travel to a handicap event with 20-50 entries if your own club racing has handicap racing for 20-50 entries every week?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 15 at 8:53pm
Strikes me as JimC. You are mostly talking about an adult sector who are most likely to vote with their feet and do what they like doing with people they like rather than fetch up at certain nominated events with no history. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 15 at 8:58pm
Why would you hate the idea of RYA coordinating events (which doubtless would still have local organisation) but not mind a class organising one?

And a weeks annual leave to sail around Chi harbour? Not likely. But apart from masochistic appeal, wouldn't the BM be nicer in warmer weather? Would it have added kudos if it was somehow sanctioned by the sports governing body?

At a class level this happens anyway, because it is what CA's do. But handicap racing is demonstrably as popular yet has no united body to represent it.

But I'm not just talking about organising handicap racing. In the same way the ISAF approve some classes for Worlds status, why shouldn't tje RYA do the same for Nationals. That doesn't mean they have to randomly select some classes in the hope of them becoming popular. On the contrary, like the ISAF with Worlds, have some predefined criteria that any class can potentially achieve, such as minimum number of entries.

Nearly every sport has a British Open (sanctioned by the sports governing body) and corresponding champion. Who is dinghy sailings Open champion?
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 15 at 9:19pm
Who is boxing's open champion? Who is cycling's?
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 15 at 8:52am
/\

AFAIK most cycling national bodies have only about 6 disciplines that have "national" status (plus sub classes for age, gender etc) and will take action against anyone who try to create other events with that title.  The UCI has a rule that prevents those with a pro license from competing in unaffiliated events; it's often ignored but has caused a major stink in the USA recently since pros were told they couldn't do popular CX events.

So cycling may not have one open champion, but it does have major restrictions about what competitors and organisers can do.  And each discipline normally has just one Open male and one Open female champ. 

It's a big contrast to sailing; it's a bit like cycling having national titles for various different brands and models, including some models dating back 80 years. 

I've been on the "rebel" side in sailing and cycling when running or taking part in "unofficial" national titles, but IMHO sailing could do well to come up with some reasonably objective criteria for "National" (with a capital N) classes and recognise them as such.  It wouldn't stop other classes having small-n nationals, but it could give the scene some clarity which could help noobs.

After all, the sport was doing a lot better back in the days when specific classes were encouraged at certain levels, although whether that was a cause or effect is obviously a vexed question that I will leave to others.

BTW completely agree with your post at the top of the page.


Edited by Chris 249 - 24 Mar 15 at 8:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 15 at 9:18am
Hi Peaky
Summer tends to be salt events.
Glyn Charles pursuit, Nore Race, East Coast Piers Race.
Stokes Bay Solent pursuit (sadly no longer sailed)
Hill Head triangulation
To name a few and I am sure various regions have all sorts of events but do to a fuller program dont get the publicity or entries that the BM gets in the winter.
Gordon
Lossc
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