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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Multi-rig racing
    Posted: 20 Mar 15 at 11:28am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by RS400atC

The RRS-not changing class rules only applies in class races.

An interesting assertion, but where in the RRS (or anywhere else) does it say that?


It should state who is eleigible in NoR.
The classes to race.
So if it says 470 class, 470 class rules apply and cannot be changed.
If it says IRC, with a rating band, IRC rules apply.
So you can stiick your assy or masthead kite on your erstwhile One design and race under a different yardstick.
If it says PY, it usually says something like any boat with a published number or words to that effect.
Which effectively means you have to keep to the boat class rules in order to race under that number.
But tens of thousands don't join the CA...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 15 at 12:04pm
Like I said, an interesting assertion, but do you have any evidence or sources to back it up?
RRS 87, and even more RRS78 seem to be quite difficult rules for those of us who like playing with boats, but if you're going to blithely say they don't apply when the clear text of the rules says they do you do need a bit more than a bare assertion or an "of course that's what it must mean".

Edited by JimC - 20 Mar 15 at 12:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 15 at 12:12pm
It seems self evident to me that if a race is run under RRS (which is 99.999% of all the racing that we on here do) then the RRS apply, whether that be a single class fleet race or a multi-clas race.

For many classes you don't have to be a member of the CA to be class legal, it's just that you do if want to race in a CA arranged event. Seems fair enough to me.

If you make your own class up to 'allow' one hull with different class rigs to compete then a. you won't have a published PY which would preclude you from many events and b. you would have no rules (unless you go to the effort of creating some, without infringing the IPR of the classes you are ripping off) so literally anything would be eligible in your class.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 15 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by Peaky

you won't have a published PY which would preclude you from many events

I hope not. It defeats one of the objects of the PYS scheme if people ban boats which don't have a published number. The statement that doing so is against the purpose of the scheme seems to have dropped off the guidance docs at some stage, but they do make it clear that the published numbers are an aid for a club to compile its own list, not a straightjacket.

I just did a quick google for
"published handicap" "sailing instructions" site:uk
and although I didn't get much back I got a few sets of club SIs which explained what they would do if a boat didn't have a published number, but none that said entry would be disallowed.

Edited by JimC - 20 Mar 15 at 12:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 15 at 12:44pm
I think the SJ events require a published number, or did a couple of years back?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 15 at 12:48pm
Shouldn't do - but they will set you a handicap where you aren't likely to beat boats with established handicaps simply because what they set is far too kind. Which is where the whole handicap debate usually starts, with cries of "Down with the establishment" and "Fix, Fix" and recently "Bollox".
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 15 at 12:58pm
Thats good to know Jim, because new and unusual boats should be encouraged.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 15 at 1:07pm
The SJ events have most definitely allowed boats without published numbers in recent years. They wouldn't have had Aeros and Zeros this year for example otherwise.

I'm not sure new and unusual boats should be either encourage or discouraged: Just treated the same as all the others. I suppose those who scream the "only real racing is class racing" mantra at every opportunity will disagree in one direction, as will the neophiliacs who scream about unfairness in the other.

Quite a few years ago now ISTR (correct me if I'm wrong) the Bloody Mary had a no prizes for boats without published numbers rule or something of the sort, maybe even a no entry thing at some stage, but as I *vaguely* recall it didn't attract good press and they changed the policy. Pretty sure that was pre Great Lakes/SJ. I could easily be wrong about all of that though.

Shame we can't just bung both lots in their own forum to scream and shout at each other and leave the rest of us out of it to discuss something more productive really.

Edited by JimC - 20 Mar 15 at 1:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 15 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by Peaky

I think the SJ events require a published number, or did a couple of years back?

A lot of events do.
That's entirely sensible, particularly for boats that rock up at 30 minutes before the start.

In cruiser racing, particularly at the less serious end, people sometimes want to negotiate ratings for boats without kites, shorthanded, modified keels, I once had to guess a py for junk rig...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 15 at 11:33pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

A lot of events do.

I'm having trouble finding any such events after a good hammering of the search engine. Perhaps you'd like to list some so folk with new classes know which events to avoid?
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