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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Boat Performance Index
    Posted: 18 Mar 15 at 1:25pm
But that is actually going backwards.... where vested interests could potentially sit on this committee or that and protect class handicaps with colloquial 'evidence' based on your remit to 'correct obvious blunders' in the data.

I'm not going to pretend that I'm the greatest fan of handicap racing, but I will acknowledge when I can see quite clearly marked improvements.... the PY system was political, now it's data driven.  I know which is better, even if it feels a tad 'nerdy'.  

And much as I would be keen to trial an new way - based on first across the line principles and groups - I'm also acutely aware that with large change has a high risk of churn, and churn is something the sport, and our respective club membership incomes, could do without right now.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 15 at 1:27pm
Originally posted by Woodburner


and even then body style will inevitably be the defining factor.


Still you have to keep thinking maybe there's an answer..


You really have a problem with being short, don't you?

Lets take a look at the top 4 in the Lightning class championships this year: 1st place, maybe 5'10", 12 stone (not sure exactly, he might be offended by those figures...) sort of Laser sailor size. 2nd a bit over 5' tall and slight. Would not like to guess her weight, but kinda tiny. 3rd, over 6 feet tall, beanpole like. 4th, 5'5", 11 stone of belly flab. I really can't see a defining body type there. When the wind fills in more, the very light and the very unfit will drop a few places - of course they will, but I'm pretty sure you'll see that kind of spread in many classes around the country, even more so in 2 handed boats.

Once you start trying to win the worlds or get an Olympic medal, then the body type will become much more critical, as the skill levels will be so much closer and mistakes fewer, but even there is is mainly to do with trending towards an average so as not to be caught out in the light or the heavy. Why else would ideal Radial weights be different for men and women?

As for the answer - maybe you aren't really sure what the question is - better build a bigger computer...
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 15 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by Woodburner


and even then body style will inevitably be the defining factor.

body shape and fitness playing a defining role in a sport?  Shock....   Confused LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 15 at 1:42pm
Absolutely Rupert. Within certain parameters body types within a class vary. Fatter chaps do well in a blow, skinny chaps do better in the light. Good sailors always go well. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 15 at 2:05pm
You know, handicap racing really is very, very silly. With the talk of body types, I just had a vision of field sport handicap competition...
Yuriy the Russian is a big chap, so he throws the hammer. He is up against Uwe the German, who is tall and rangy, so he throws the Javelin. Yuriy can throw about 86m at his best, Uwe about 104. To make the contest even, the length of each throw is divided by the average throw of everyone who takes part in each disipline. The thrower who has done better against their sport's average is declared the winner. We can throw in Discus and shotput, too while we are about it, and then, to mirror what it is like when a 49er races an Oppie on handicap, the averages from the world Frisbee championships, too.

Doesn't really make much sense, does it?

Interestingly when looking up distances, it sems the records were set in the 80s, by drug fuelled nations. I know the Javelin has been altered to fly less far since, but does anyone know if the Hammer is still the same, and it is simply the Soviet drug programme which means it hasn't been beaten?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 15 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Interestingly when looking up distances, it sems the records were set in the 80s, by drug fuelled nations. I know the Javelin has been altered to fly less far since, but does anyone know if the Hammer is still the same, and it is simply the Soviet drug programme which means it hasn't been beaten?

which probably explains why most non-anabolic steriod enhanced guys struggle pulling a Finn up the slipway....


Edited by turnturtle - 18 Mar 15 at 2:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 15 at 7:20pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Craiggo, have you seen the size of a Grad main these days?


I certainly have given that I own Graduate 2928!

While I agree the Grad has got a bit quicker thanks to the extra 1sqm of mainsail, I think it's fair to say that the new Miracles are also significantly quicker. Not only are they being made in super stiff FRP but they have adopted in-board jib sheeting. I'd certainly stuff them in with the Grad. It does seem however that the Miracle is superbly suited to open water and not so good on a very small inland lake, odd given where most of them are sailed.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Moo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 15 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by craiggo

Originally posted by Rupert

Craiggo, have you seen the size of a Grad main these days?


I certainly have given that I own Graduate 2928!

While I agree the Grad has got a bit quicker thanks to the extra 1sqm of mainsail, I think it's fair to say that the new Miracles are also significantly quicker. Not only are they being made in super stiff FRP but they have adopted in-board jib sheeting. I'd certainly stuff them in with the Grad. It does seem however that the Miracle is superbly suited to open water and not so good on a very small inland lake, odd given where most of them are sailed.


And if true might explain why their PY is on the increase if the returns are coming from small waters.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 15 at 8:43pm
Apart from grf's small piece of water, where they are sailed by superhumans. Never have raced against one at sea, but I could see the smaller rig being less of a disadvantage, especially with a long spinnaker leg thrown in.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 15 at 8:57pm
Put it on a regular Blaze and that extra metre of sail and it now means -46 points   Wink    ..... got to be right has'nt it ?!  RYA says so ... and everyone else from clubs who have had Halo's for years to the very capable SJ series folk are plainly wrong.....  
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