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iiitick View Drop Down
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Posts: 478 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Multi-rig racing
    Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 10:20pm
I only have one word for you all. Tasar.

I don't know about about Carbon Fibre but the ship Zaphod Beeblebrooks nicked was black man, so black, so cool.
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Washy71 View Drop Down
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Posts: 56 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Washy71 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 10:23pm
Originally posted by Bootscooter

Sorry for my leap there Washy, you're right that I've read it wrong (Doh!)
My points are still valid though comparing the *eros to other classes, but yes, they're a step-change forward from the Laser.




Of course. There are plenty of lovely boats out there.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 10:23pm
How would a dyneema hull compare to glass or carbon?

edit. To answer my own question, better impact resistance, less stiffness. So a combination weave of carbon and dyneema is suggested
here

Edited by Peaky - 14 Mar 15 at 10:29pm
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 11:09pm
Why does everything have to evolve? Many of the greatest pleasures in life don't evolve much if at all, like sunsets, swimming, and being with lovers and loved ones. Many popular activities, from playing the piano and chess to running, change little.

And why are those who moved from one single-sailed SMOD singlehanded archimedian monohull dinghy to another single-sailed SMOD singlehanded archimedian monohull dinghy particularly "open minded"?  If making such a small change makes one "open minded" then what about the people who went from Lasers to kitefoilers, or from Comets to home-knitted gaff trimarans?

If there is any correlation between the type of boat one sails and how open minded one is, I have yet to see it. In fact, some of the slower and more conventional classes seem to be more open-minded, in terms of the general attitude towards changes in wider society, than the fast open-design classes, as far as my own limited experience.

Presumably if sailing new craft means that one is open minded, then sailing a foiler must mean that one has a very open mind. But what about those who have sailed the foiling Lasers?  Surely the clash between a closed-minded activity (Lasering) and an open-minded activity (foiling) must cause the brain to reverse its polarity....there should be a public health alert. 

My cycling mates weren't interested in the shorthanded offshore tri or the fast cat or boards. They do find the Laser concept, where everyone from Alaska to Zimbabwe uses the same gear and it doesn't have to be updated all the time, to be a really interesting idea. And that's a true story!

Oh, and while middle-aged men may love carbon bikes and electronic shifting, young high tech IT hipsters working at Google and startups at the epicentre of the leading edge in the Silicon Valley are drooling over old steel fixed-gear singlespeed bikes and riding them to gaming conventions where they play old-style cardboard board games to a background of '80s new wave and live coding.... they seem to be perfectly at ease with the idea that some things don't evolve much.




Edited by Chris 249 - 15 Mar 15 at 12:25am
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 15 at 8:46am
Strikes me that this question, how it has evolved and a lot of others we chew over comes back to a question I posed back in January.

Sport or Competitive Passtime.

Sport= Single rig, strict rules and no need to evolve standard equipment for all, too old or frail to compete tough luck get fit or get out. 

Competitive Passtime= Multiple choices to suit all body types, levels of athleticism and continual evolution of equipment both by manufacturers, design hotshots and garage tinkerers.

Of course it is different strokes for different folks and often both for some folks depending how we feel on the day or who we are up against.

Lucky really as it ensures a constant churn on here.  
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 15 at 8:49am
Originally posted by Bootscooter

I was being purposely cautious Jim, so as not to be called out on unsubstantiated claims
The point is that while these boats may feel revolutionary, they're not really in terms of construction, but perhaps in accessibility for the masses.

Perhaps I'm being a bit over-sensitive, but the "new is good, old is bad" from quite a few posters is beginning to rankle a bit (I expect it from Grumph ). I, and many others don't want a SMOD, don't want a perfectly designed hull, don't want "effortless speed" - I've been there, done that, and now I want to play the way I'm playing. I don't expect others to feel and want the same as me, so why do so many become "overly evangelical" about their choices?

I think you may be missing the point boots, whilst some of the claims of technical advancement maybe marketing waffle in some cases, let's not forget they are fairly revolutionary.  You can buy a brand new boat with full carbon rig, north laminate sails, top quality foils (that would look fairly boutique in any high end class) full hark fit out for under £6k.  So from that perspective they are pretty revolutionary.  They are not aimed at the finn market, hell you could buy 5 zeros for the price of a race ready Finn.  They are pretty cutting edge in their ability to offer a modern equivalent to the laser, which In itself was/is a club racer for the masses.  I like the laser, if either of these boats have even 5% of its success then fair play.  But from an outsiders perspective (my mates so mid to late 30's) you show them laser or even finn sailing they just don't understand it.  They get more switched off and laugh when I tell them how much the Finn is.  My best mte who is massively critical of dinghy sailing at least said my new boat looked cool even if the sport is a bit limp wristed in his opinion.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 15 at 9:15am
Strange that boats like Tideways still cost many thousands when decades old. Maybe the market for traditional stuff is actually bigger than for the new and revolutionary? As for the Aero, it seems to me that in many ways, barring the light weight, it is a rather traditional boat, which might explain the too sales figures.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Bootscooter View Drop Down
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Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 15 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by Null


Originally posted by Bootscooter

I was being purposely cautious Jim, so as not to be called out on unsubstantiated claims
The point is that while these boats may feel revolutionary, they're not really in terms of construction, but perhaps in accessibility for the masses.

Perhaps I'm being a bit over-sensitive, but the "new is good, old is bad" from quite a few posters is beginning to rankle a bit (I expect it from Grumph ). I, and many others don't want a SMOD, don't want a perfectly designed hull, don't want "effortless speed" - I've been there, done that, and now I want to play the way I'm playing. I don't expect others to feel and want the same as me, so why do so many become "overly evangelical" about their choices?

I think you may be missing the point boots, whilst some of the claims of technical advancement maybe marketing waffle in some cases, let's not forget they are fairly revolutionary.  You can buy a brand new boat with full carbon rig, north laminate sails, top quality foils (that would look fairly boutique in any high end class) full hark fit out for under £6k.  So from that perspective they are pretty revolutionary.  They are not aimed at the finn market, hell you could buy 5 zeros for the price of a race ready Finn.  They are pretty cutting edge in their ability to offer a modern equivalent to the laser, which In itself was/is a club racer for the masses.  I like the laser, if either of these boats have even 5% of its success then fair play.  But from an outsiders perspective (my mates so mid to late 30's) you show them laser or even finn sailing they just don't understand it.  They get more switched off and laugh when I tell them how much the Finn is.  My best mte who is massively critical of dinghy sailing at least said my new boat looked cool even if the sport is a bit limp wristed in his opinion.


That's effectively what I've said there Russ - the tech is nothing particularly new, but the price and "sailability" for the ordinary sailor certainly is.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 15 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by Peaky

How would a dyneema hull compare to glass or carbon?

edit. To answer my own question, better impact resistance, less stiffness. So a combination weave of carbon and dyneema is suggested
here

Bouke's methods are more agricultural, but proves the point...

surprised no one has looked at a carbon/dyneema hybrid for something like Mothing, where impact resistance might be a good shout...



Edited by turnturtle - 16 Mar 15 at 12:07pm
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 15 at 1:35pm
the market for mixed fibre weaves is small and the specialist weaving quite expensive, so availability of the fabric is low and price is high.
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