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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Multi-rig racing
    Posted: 15 Mar 15 at 8:46am
Strikes me that this question, how it has evolved and a lot of others we chew over comes back to a question I posed back in January.

Sport or Competitive Passtime.

Sport= Single rig, strict rules and no need to evolve standard equipment for all, too old or frail to compete tough luck get fit or get out. 

Competitive Passtime= Multiple choices to suit all body types, levels of athleticism and continual evolution of equipment both by manufacturers, design hotshots and garage tinkerers.

Of course it is different strokes for different folks and often both for some folks depending how we feel on the day or who we are up against.

Lucky really as it ensures a constant churn on here.  
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 11:09pm
Why does everything have to evolve? Many of the greatest pleasures in life don't evolve much if at all, like sunsets, swimming, and being with lovers and loved ones. Many popular activities, from playing the piano and chess to running, change little.

And why are those who moved from one single-sailed SMOD singlehanded archimedian monohull dinghy to another single-sailed SMOD singlehanded archimedian monohull dinghy particularly "open minded"?  If making such a small change makes one "open minded" then what about the people who went from Lasers to kitefoilers, or from Comets to home-knitted gaff trimarans?

If there is any correlation between the type of boat one sails and how open minded one is, I have yet to see it. In fact, some of the slower and more conventional classes seem to be more open-minded, in terms of the general attitude towards changes in wider society, than the fast open-design classes, as far as my own limited experience.

Presumably if sailing new craft means that one is open minded, then sailing a foiler must mean that one has a very open mind. But what about those who have sailed the foiling Lasers?  Surely the clash between a closed-minded activity (Lasering) and an open-minded activity (foiling) must cause the brain to reverse its polarity....there should be a public health alert. 

My cycling mates weren't interested in the shorthanded offshore tri or the fast cat or boards. They do find the Laser concept, where everyone from Alaska to Zimbabwe uses the same gear and it doesn't have to be updated all the time, to be a really interesting idea. And that's a true story!

Oh, and while middle-aged men may love carbon bikes and electronic shifting, young high tech IT hipsters working at Google and startups at the epicentre of the leading edge in the Silicon Valley are drooling over old steel fixed-gear singlespeed bikes and riding them to gaming conventions where they play old-style cardboard board games to a background of '80s new wave and live coding.... they seem to be perfectly at ease with the idea that some things don't evolve much.




Edited by Chris 249 - 15 Mar 15 at 12:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 10:23pm
How would a dyneema hull compare to glass or carbon?

edit. To answer my own question, better impact resistance, less stiffness. So a combination weave of carbon and dyneema is suggested
here

Edited by Peaky - 14 Mar 15 at 10:29pm
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Washy71 View Drop Down
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Posts: 56 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Washy71 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 10:23pm
Originally posted by Bootscooter

Sorry for my leap there Washy, you're right that I've read it wrong (Doh!)
My points are still valid though comparing the *eros to other classes, but yes, they're a step-change forward from the Laser.




Of course. There are plenty of lovely boats out there.
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iiitick View Drop Down
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Posts: 478 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 10:20pm
I only have one word for you all. Tasar.

I don't know about about Carbon Fibre but the ship Zaphod Beeblebrooks nicked was black man, so black, so cool.
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Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 10:17pm
Sorry for my leap there Washy, you're right that I've read it wrong (Doh!)
My points are still valid though comparing the *eros to other classes, but yes, they're a step-change forward from the Laser.
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Posts: 56 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Washy71 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 10:11pm
Originally posted by Bootscooter

I'm delighted that you're enjoying your boat Washy, and the *eros will hopefully persuade some lapsed Laser sailors back on to the water, but don't forget that there's plenty of us that have no interest in them.

Your post also reads as if carbon fibre has only just been used for boats, whereas I14s, Moths, Cherubs, Finns, Europes and countless other "things designed four decades ago" or more have been using "exotic materials" for what, 2 decades? On that subject, I can think of very few classes of boats that are still as they were 40 years ago (aside from the obvious SMODS). Even my '97 Finn is a world away from a mid-80's boat...

Perhaps your non-sailing mates are paying more attention because of your obvious enthusiasm for your class, rather than the boat itself? Is this boat going to make them take up sailing? If so, I'd suggest they wouldn't stick with the boat long, as these are *sweeping generalisation alert* people that will spend a fortune on a new set of Mavics or a new groupset that is 15g lighter, whilst ignoring the 3Kg of gut and lovehandles that they're carrying around. They won't be able to pimp, love and fettle their SMOD so will soon lose interest, either dropping out of the sport or moving class to one that allows them to personalise and optimise, the way they do with their bikes.

The *eros are great, but they're not the answer to life, the universe and everything (42). I'm looking forward to racing against them in my Finn on handicap (and we shouldn't be that far apart on the racecourse - how much difference with over 70 years between the designs?) as the more the more the merrier on the water.


I'm not convinced you read, or understood, my post correctly. It was a response regarding the Laser and the suggestion of "why would I" in the context of a Laser sailor making the change I have to "these new boats". Quite how you made the leap I was talking all things dinghy related is beyond me.
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Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 10:06pm
I was being purposely cautious Jim, so as not to be called out on unsubstantiated claims
The point is that while these boats may feel revolutionary, they're not really in terms of construction, but perhaps in accessibility for the masses.

Perhaps I'm being a bit over-sensitive, but the "new is good, old is bad" from quite a few posters is beginning to rankle a bit (I expect it from Grumph ). I, and many others don't want a SMOD, don't want a perfectly designed hull, don't want "effortless speed" - I've been there, done that, and now I want to play the way I'm playing. I don't expect others to feel and want the same as me, so why do so many become "overly evangelical" about their choices?
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 9:57pm
I don't recall having seen it used in hulls.
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 9:51pm
Jim- while on this tangent, do you ever recall much hull work with dyneema in small boat design and build?

(Reason for asking is my favourite windsurf board is built around a dyneema lay up)
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