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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Multi-rig racing
    Posted: 13 Mar 15 at 4:41pm
It will be very interesting to see how many Laser sailors actually switch to these new boats

The ones I've spoken to are enthusiastic about the new boats but essentially said 'why would I ?. The Laser has Opens everywhere most weeks, has good fleets at most clubs, is not really that much slower than these new boats, is a reasonable handicap boat, etc etc" ?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 15 at 9:11pm
I think it requires a stubborn git mentality to refuse to consider a laser again..... No way I'd borrow the club laser, just think what would happen if I liked it?!????!!!??
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Washy71 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 10:44am
Originally posted by rich96

It will be very interesting to see how many Laser sailors actually switch to these new boats

The ones I've spoken to are enthusiastic about the new boats but essentially said 'why would I ?. The Laser has Opens everywhere most weeks, has good fleets at most clubs, is not really that much slower than these new boats, is a reasonable handicap boat, etc etc" ?


Have they tried them? I jumped out of my Laser in a heartbeat when the D-Zero came along. So did a few of my club Laser sailing mates. These boats are about rather more than just speed or handicap rating. They're about the joy of sailing too and the raw sailing experience. Most of the Laser sailors I know are getting on a bit, I'm a "young man" at 43! The relative comfort of the D-Zero (I've limited experience with the Aero) on the water and the ease of handling ashore makes them a bit of a no brainer for anyone sub athletic. Also, the D-Zero is drawing in single handed sailors from other classes who hated the Laser, so the potential to create one super single handed fleet, with wider appeal than the Laser, is there if folk are open minded enough to see beyond what they think they know. I suspect the same applies to the Aero.

Everything needs to evolve. Sadly many in dinghy sailing seem to think not. Is it any wonder we fail to attract new blood when so many are bobbing about in things designed four decades, or more, ago?. My cycling buddies had no interest, at all, in my Laser sailing. As soon as I mentioned the carbon fibre and lightweight goings on with the D-Zero they paid more attention.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 9:18pm
I'm delighted that you're enjoying your boat Washy, and the *eros will hopefully persuade some lapsed Laser sailors back on to the water, but don't forget that there's plenty of us that have no interest in them.

Your post also reads as if carbon fibre has only just been used for boats, whereas I14s, Moths, Cherubs, Finns, Europes and countless other "things designed four decades ago" or more have been using "exotic materials" for what, 2 decades? On that subject, I can think of very few classes of boats that are still as they were 40 years ago (aside from the obvious SMODS). Even my '97 Finn is a world away from a mid-80's boat...

Perhaps your non-sailing mates are paying more attention because of your obvious enthusiasm for your class, rather than the boat itself? Is this boat going to make them take up sailing? If so, I'd suggest they wouldn't stick with the boat long, as these are *sweeping generalisation alert* people that will spend a fortune on a new set of Mavics or a new groupset that is 15g lighter, whilst ignoring the 3Kg of gut and lovehandles that they're carrying around. They won't be able to pimp, love and fettle their SMOD so will soon lose interest, either dropping out of the sport or moving class to one that allows them to personalise and optimise, the way they do with their bikes.

The *eros are great, but they're not the answer to life, the universe and everything (42). I'm looking forward to racing against them in my Finn on handicap (and we shouldn't be that far apart on the racecourse - how much difference with over 70 years between the designs?) as the more the more the merrier on the water.

Edited by Bootscooter - 14 Mar 15 at 9:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by Bootscooter

...have been using "exotic materials" for what, 2 decades?

1976 I think I first saw carbon fibre reinforcement on a Cherub, but it was still fairly unusual in the late 80s although the first (unsuccessful) carbon mast I recall on a UK Cherub was about 1987. Kevlar was a bit earlier on the whole: I remember seeing a all kevlar skin boat in 1980. Foam cores were the first bit of exotica, the 70 worlds were won with a foam core boat, and there were a number more, but it wasn't really until mid 80s that the UK Cherub class got into home building in foam seriously (stand up Bill Deeley).

So a bit longer than two decades! And terrifying to think that widespread use of asymmetric kites and home built foam hulls has been around longer than an awful lot of sailors: I still find myself thinking of them as newish things, but if I think about the boats that were 35 years old when I was 25, well they were antediluvian...

Edited by JimC - 14 Mar 15 at 9:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 9:51pm
Jim- while on this tangent, do you ever recall much hull work with dyneema in small boat design and build?

(Reason for asking is my favourite windsurf board is built around a dyneema lay up)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 9:57pm
I don't recall having seen it used in hulls.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 10:06pm
I was being purposely cautious Jim, so as not to be called out on unsubstantiated claims
The point is that while these boats may feel revolutionary, they're not really in terms of construction, but perhaps in accessibility for the masses.

Perhaps I'm being a bit over-sensitive, but the "new is good, old is bad" from quite a few posters is beginning to rankle a bit (I expect it from Grumph ). I, and many others don't want a SMOD, don't want a perfectly designed hull, don't want "effortless speed" - I've been there, done that, and now I want to play the way I'm playing. I don't expect others to feel and want the same as me, so why do so many become "overly evangelical" about their choices?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Washy71 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 10:11pm
Originally posted by Bootscooter

I'm delighted that you're enjoying your boat Washy, and the *eros will hopefully persuade some lapsed Laser sailors back on to the water, but don't forget that there's plenty of us that have no interest in them.

Your post also reads as if carbon fibre has only just been used for boats, whereas I14s, Moths, Cherubs, Finns, Europes and countless other "things designed four decades ago" or more have been using "exotic materials" for what, 2 decades? On that subject, I can think of very few classes of boats that are still as they were 40 years ago (aside from the obvious SMODS). Even my '97 Finn is a world away from a mid-80's boat...

Perhaps your non-sailing mates are paying more attention because of your obvious enthusiasm for your class, rather than the boat itself? Is this boat going to make them take up sailing? If so, I'd suggest they wouldn't stick with the boat long, as these are *sweeping generalisation alert* people that will spend a fortune on a new set of Mavics or a new groupset that is 15g lighter, whilst ignoring the 3Kg of gut and lovehandles that they're carrying around. They won't be able to pimp, love and fettle their SMOD so will soon lose interest, either dropping out of the sport or moving class to one that allows them to personalise and optimise, the way they do with their bikes.

The *eros are great, but they're not the answer to life, the universe and everything (42). I'm looking forward to racing against them in my Finn on handicap (and we shouldn't be that far apart on the racecourse - how much difference with over 70 years between the designs?) as the more the more the merrier on the water.


I'm not convinced you read, or understood, my post correctly. It was a response regarding the Laser and the suggestion of "why would I" in the context of a Laser sailor making the change I have to "these new boats". Quite how you made the leap I was talking all things dinghy related is beyond me.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 10:17pm
Sorry for my leap there Washy, you're right that I've read it wrong (Doh!)
My points are still valid though comparing the *eros to other classes, but yes, they're a step-change forward from the Laser.
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