New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Multi-rig racing
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Multi-rig racing

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567 23>
Author
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Multi-rig racing
    Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by Bootscooter

...have been using "exotic materials" for what, 2 decades?

1976 I think I first saw carbon fibre reinforcement on a Cherub, but it was still fairly unusual in the late 80s although the first (unsuccessful) carbon mast I recall on a UK Cherub was about 1987. Kevlar was a bit earlier on the whole: I remember seeing a all kevlar skin boat in 1980. Foam cores were the first bit of exotica, the 70 worlds were won with a foam core boat, and there were a number more, but it wasn't really until mid 80s that the UK Cherub class got into home building in foam seriously (stand up Bill Deeley).

So a bit longer than two decades! And terrifying to think that widespread use of asymmetric kites and home built foam hulls has been around longer than an awful lot of sailors: I still find myself thinking of them as newish things, but if I think about the boats that were 35 years old when I was 25, well they were antediluvian...

Edited by JimC - 14 Mar 15 at 9:51pm
Back to Top
Bootscooter View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 15 May 07
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1094
Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 9:18pm
I'm delighted that you're enjoying your boat Washy, and the *eros will hopefully persuade some lapsed Laser sailors back on to the water, but don't forget that there's plenty of us that have no interest in them.

Your post also reads as if carbon fibre has only just been used for boats, whereas I14s, Moths, Cherubs, Finns, Europes and countless other "things designed four decades ago" or more have been using "exotic materials" for what, 2 decades? On that subject, I can think of very few classes of boats that are still as they were 40 years ago (aside from the obvious SMODS). Even my '97 Finn is a world away from a mid-80's boat...

Perhaps your non-sailing mates are paying more attention because of your obvious enthusiasm for your class, rather than the boat itself? Is this boat going to make them take up sailing? If so, I'd suggest they wouldn't stick with the boat long, as these are *sweeping generalisation alert* people that will spend a fortune on a new set of Mavics or a new groupset that is 15g lighter, whilst ignoring the 3Kg of gut and lovehandles that they're carrying around. They won't be able to pimp, love and fettle their SMOD so will soon lose interest, either dropping out of the sport or moving class to one that allows them to personalise and optimise, the way they do with their bikes.

The *eros are great, but they're not the answer to life, the universe and everything (42). I'm looking forward to racing against them in my Finn on handicap (and we shouldn't be that far apart on the racecourse - how much difference with over 70 years between the designs?) as the more the more the merrier on the water.

Edited by Bootscooter - 14 Mar 15 at 9:22pm
Back to Top
Washy71 View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 01 Jul 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 56
Post Options Post Options   Quote Washy71 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 15 at 10:44am
Originally posted by rich96

It will be very interesting to see how many Laser sailors actually switch to these new boats

The ones I've spoken to are enthusiastic about the new boats but essentially said 'why would I ?. The Laser has Opens everywhere most weeks, has good fleets at most clubs, is not really that much slower than these new boats, is a reasonable handicap boat, etc etc" ?


Have they tried them? I jumped out of my Laser in a heartbeat when the D-Zero came along. So did a few of my club Laser sailing mates. These boats are about rather more than just speed or handicap rating. They're about the joy of sailing too and the raw sailing experience. Most of the Laser sailors I know are getting on a bit, I'm a "young man" at 43! The relative comfort of the D-Zero (I've limited experience with the Aero) on the water and the ease of handling ashore makes them a bit of a no brainer for anyone sub athletic. Also, the D-Zero is drawing in single handed sailors from other classes who hated the Laser, so the potential to create one super single handed fleet, with wider appeal than the Laser, is there if folk are open minded enough to see beyond what they think they know. I suspect the same applies to the Aero.

Everything needs to evolve. Sadly many in dinghy sailing seem to think not. Is it any wonder we fail to attract new blood when so many are bobbing about in things designed four decades, or more, ago?. My cycling buddies had no interest, at all, in my Laser sailing. As soon as I mentioned the carbon fibre and lightweight goings on with the D-Zero they paid more attention.
D-Zero GBR71
Back to Top
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2538
Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 15 at 9:11pm
I think it requires a stubborn git mentality to refuse to consider a laser again..... No way I'd borrow the club laser, just think what would happen if I liked it?!????!!!??
Back to Top
rich96 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 20 Jan 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 596
Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 15 at 4:41pm
It will be very interesting to see how many Laser sailors actually switch to these new boats

The ones I've spoken to are enthusiastic about the new boats but essentially said 'why would I ?. The Laser has Opens everywhere most weeks, has good fleets at most clubs, is not really that much slower than these new boats, is a reasonable handicap boat, etc etc" ?
Back to Top
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2538
Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 15 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by jeffers

There are many more that would change to the Zero too if they could get a boat within their budget. Most dinghy sailors I know prefer to pay outright for their boat rather than have it on finance.

The good thing with ex-demo boats being only 5 grand or so, they will soon be depreciated to the price of a 'nice' laser....   Big smile

Hopefully the RS guys will churn their customers too to stimulate the after market..... although at the rate they seem to be going out the door they might want to wait a while.  
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3048
Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 15 at 11:38am
The one advantage the Laser has over the new classes is critical mass and plentiful supply of cheap boats.

You can pick up a £500 boat and win races at club level with it (you may need to buy a new sail but if replicas are allowed that is not a huge expense).

You can get a fully XD rigged boat for around £800 now too and that might even come with a decent sail.

Until the *ero classes can match that then the Laser will still be the boat of choice for many.

Chatting to Zero owners from other clubs thay have come from varying classes not all Laser (but a significant proportion have, myself included). There are many more that would change to the Zero too if they could get a boat within their budget. Most dinghy sailors I know prefer to pay outright for their boat rather than have it on finance.
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2538
Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 15 at 11:20am
Here's a thought... at Draycote the Laser fleet has grown a lot over the last 5 or so years.  It's clearly the most active fleet, and I can't help but wonder if all the Aero and Zero talk might end up just being 'Emperor's New Clothes'.

I hope not, and remain optimistic that the Zero will attract interest in its own right, maybe consolidating a few of the existing handicappers, or drawing in sailors and ex-sailors from the local area not currently in membership looking for a new boat/new place to sail.

Anyway, one of the things the recent fleet captains have done is to essentially re-write the persona of the class.  Previously, Laser sailing was seen as a bit too serious, banana munching type stuff.  Not atypical for many Laser clubs I'm sure. Very, very strict rules adherence and probably a class that was as likely as any to yield protests and shouty-shouty mark roundings.... and let's not even go there for out of class bits and replica sails.

They seem a bit more relaxed now, or they do when I've seen them sailing.  I don't think this has affected the competitive spirit, if anything I think it has increased the competitive spirit throughout the fleet- in turn returning greater numbers.    

One thing they've done is relax the rules around replicas and using radials/roosters.  In that if you are in the bottom half of the results, the result stands.  However in the top half, the result is DSQ.  It seems to work, and keeps people sailing together in a 'proper race'.  Given the number of newbies and returners, I'd say this policy has actively countered the presumptions around cost and accessibility.  But this is only an opinion, observed from quite some distance with a gentle admiration.
Back to Top
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2538
Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 15 at 9:20am
don't other factors come in to play with mothing though- namely drag.... to the point where it seems hardly anyone in the moth fleet has developed a 'fun' lightwind sail- albeit out of class, it enables foiling, therefore training/club racing/blasting in sub 5 knots....

I've watched the moth competitive weight band widen over the past few years and have admired it.... it's no longer just a fly weight chariot- to the point where most folks who have the commitment needed to sail one, probably has the mental will power get their body weight to a competitive point to match it.  
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 15 at 8:57am
There do appear to be several threads running through this - one is whether 2 entries to a series count for one series result or 2, and I think the answer "its up to the club" kind of covers most of the viewpoints.

The other, in some ways more interesting part is that of single class racing with multiple rigs, which is where Chris249 has experience and a strong viewpoint. Given what happened to the 18 footers back in the 80s, and the vast cost reduction programme they had to go to to keep things viable, I can see what the problems are. But a small singlehander with a choice of rigs wouldn't cost the earth, and might producesome great racing. The Aero really isn't the boat to do it with, though, is it? The concept was to keep the thing as simple as possible.

A hydrofoiling class where you could swap rigs would make a lot of sense. Wind drops below what you can foil with a certain size rig, bung a bigger one on. And there would be real advantages to a smaller rig when the wind got up, as it would actually pay, rather than hanging on to the rig upwind for the extra speed down. Next step for the Moths?
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567 23>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy