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Multi-rig racing |
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RS400atC 
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Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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 Topic: Multi-rig racingPosted: 12 Mar 15 at 10:48pm |
I don't think that really alligns too well with the attention given on here to every shiny new 'class' that comes along. If it was about value for money, we'd be ignoring all these latest gizmos and getting on with racing in Fireballs, Lasers, etc... New classes are all very well for those of us who can afford to write the value down very quickly. Not that I'm against people with a few quid spending on boats they fancy, it's only what relatively ordinary people spend on dull cars, predictable holidays and chav weddings. |
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Do Different
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Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312 |
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Posted: 13 Mar 15 at 6:39am |
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I also think that reducing the perceived cost of the sport is a high priority but I do not agree with the direct link you then make to not allowing rig (boat/class) swapping within a series.
I also think that increasing participation is an equally valid goal If a particular Club thinks that the majority of it's members will engage with a series more by allowing multiple craft to score then they are better placed to judge that than me or anybody else not fully informed of their circumstances. Remember that the culture at Clubs will vary greatly. For instance some are all shiny, shiny but equally some embrace the pottering and restoring of multiple older boats and why not let those to enjoy the benefits of their labours vs the benefits of wealth. You could easily a couple of old boats for half the cost of a single rig xxro or Laser. To be clear, I do think that for the purposes of scoring a race you should race under the rating for that boat. From then on it is admin call for the Club as they see fit. |
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turnturtle
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Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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Posted: 13 Mar 15 at 6:59am |
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Good points ... I guess I would prefer it that entries in a series were separated, but that's probably a hangover from a fundamental assumption that series results reward consistency and participation. It would certainly not be reason for me to change clubs if they did facilitate transferring points between classes.
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Chris 249
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Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 13 Mar 15 at 7:04am |
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DD, it looks like we (and many others) on the forum are actually quite similar in our thoughts, in that we both think it's a call for the individual club. Some of us were just addressing the minority who said that the only correct answer was to allow multiple rigs. RS400C, the emphasis on reducing costs is because there are studies and surveys that indicate that cost (and perceived cost) is a major turn-off for newcomers. And as has often been noted, the stuff that gets attention on the web isn't the stuff that most people sail! Cheers all.
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turnturtle
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Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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Posted: 13 Mar 15 at 8:32am |
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Although compared to a pair of studs and shinpads, it is quite expensive..... Just that things are relative and cheaper options than the main stream media views are available.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/rich-guy-wins-yacht-race,620/ |
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Rupert
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Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Posted: 13 Mar 15 at 8:57am |
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There do appear to be several threads running through this - one is whether 2 entries to a series count for one series result or 2, and I think the answer "its up to the club" kind of covers most of the viewpoints.
The other, in some ways more interesting part is that of single class racing with multiple rigs, which is where Chris249 has experience and a strong viewpoint. Given what happened to the 18 footers back in the 80s, and the vast cost reduction programme they had to go to to keep things viable, I can see what the problems are. But a small singlehander with a choice of rigs wouldn't cost the earth, and might producesome great racing. The Aero really isn't the boat to do it with, though, is it? The concept was to keep the thing as simple as possible. A hydrofoiling class where you could swap rigs would make a lot of sense. Wind drops below what you can foil with a certain size rig, bung a bigger one on. And there would be real advantages to a smaller rig when the wind got up, as it would actually pay, rather than hanging on to the rig upwind for the extra speed down. Next step for the Moths? |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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turnturtle
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Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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Posted: 13 Mar 15 at 9:20am |
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don't other factors come in to play with mothing though- namely drag.... to the point where it seems hardly anyone in the moth fleet has developed a 'fun' lightwind sail- albeit out of class, it enables foiling, therefore training/club racing/blasting in sub 5 knots....
I've watched the moth competitive weight band widen over the past few years and have admired it.... it's no longer just a fly weight chariot- to the point where most folks who have the commitment needed to sail one, probably has the mental will power get their body weight to a competitive point to match it.
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turnturtle
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Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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Posted: 13 Mar 15 at 11:20am |
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Here's a thought... at Draycote the Laser fleet has grown a lot over the last 5 or so years. It's clearly the most active fleet, and I can't help but wonder if all the Aero and Zero talk might end up just being 'Emperor's New Clothes'.
I hope not, and remain optimistic that the Zero will attract interest in its own right, maybe consolidating a few of the existing handicappers, or drawing in sailors and ex-sailors from the local area not currently in membership looking for a new boat/new place to sail. Anyway, one of the things the recent fleet captains have done is to essentially re-write the persona of the class. Previously, Laser sailing was seen as a bit too serious, banana munching type stuff. Not atypical for many Laser clubs I'm sure. Very, very strict rules adherence and probably a class that was as likely as any to yield protests and shouty-shouty mark roundings.... and let's not even go there for out of class bits and replica sails. They seem a bit more relaxed now, or they do when I've seen them sailing. I don't think this has affected the competitive spirit, if anything I think it has increased the competitive spirit throughout the fleet- in turn returning greater numbers. One thing they've done is relax the rules around replicas and using radials/roosters. In that if you are in the bottom half of the results, the result stands. However in the top half, the result is DSQ. It seems to work, and keeps people sailing together in a 'proper race'. Given the number of newbies and returners, I'd say this policy has actively countered the presumptions around cost and accessibility. But this is only an opinion, observed from quite some distance with a gentle admiration.
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jeffers
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Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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Posted: 13 Mar 15 at 11:38am |
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The one advantage the Laser has over the new classes is critical mass and plentiful supply of cheap boats.
You can pick up a £500 boat and win races at club level with it (you may need to buy a new sail but if replicas are allowed that is not a huge expense). You can get a fully XD rigged boat for around £800 now too and that might even come with a decent sail. Until the *ero classes can match that then the Laser will still be the boat of choice for many. Chatting to Zero owners from other clubs thay have come from varying classes not all Laser (but a significant proportion have, myself included). There are many more that would change to the Zero too if they could get a boat within their budget. Most dinghy sailors I know prefer to pay outright for their boat rather than have it on finance.
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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turnturtle
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Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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Posted: 13 Mar 15 at 3:20pm |
The good thing with ex-demo boats being only 5 grand or so, they will soon be depreciated to the price of a 'nice' laser....  Hopefully the RS guys will churn their customers too to stimulate the after market..... although at the rate they seem to be going out the door they might want to wait a while.
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