New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Multi-rig racing
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Multi-rig racing
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 910111213 23>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Multi-rig racing
    Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 8:54pm
Originally posted by JimC

In our clubs evening series last year the best Laser sailor would drop from 4th to 5th if his Radial was handicapped as a standard rig, but in that particular series there was a big gap between 5th and 6th.

It seems to me, though that the real problem *is* perception. I know I always say look at the numbers to see what's really happening, but if Joe Budgetsailor perceives that Ritchie Richkid in the next berth is going to beat him every light wind day simply because RR's got a bigger rig up, and every heavy wind day because RR's got a smaller rig up, what happens to Joe's enthusiasm?


Joe needs to grow up then.... And join the real world.

I can't see the problem in sailing in multiple classes (even those with a common hull), but the series entires should be separate. isn't that obvious???😳

Edited by turnturtle - 10 Mar 15 at 8:57pm
Back to Top
maxibuddah View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 6:24pm
You're right there,I never turn up and I never win anything
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
Back to Top
RS400atC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 04 Dec 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by Do Different

Such a shame that innovation is sometimes seen as a problem, how much fresher and cleaner the air would feel if it could be embraced as an enabling step forward.

Surely there is a way to frame the rules so that the advent of these two new classes and one older one will empower wide range of helm weights (and possibly, ages, fitness & experience) to take to the water together for as many sailing days as possible.


+1.
where there's a will, there is a way, even if it includes multi-scoring a series or two.

In a club where the official comedy self adjusting PY is followed to the letter, it would be interesting to see what happened if you split classes into big rig/little rig/middle rig and multi-rig.

My guess is that most people would win more series if they simply sailed more races.
Back to Top
Do Different View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 26 Jan 12
Location: North
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 6:04pm
Such a shame that innovation is sometimes seen as a problem, how much fresher and cleaner the air would feel if it could be embraced as an enabling step forward.

Surely there is a way to frame the rules so that the advent of these two new classes and one older one will empower wide range of helm weights (and possibly, ages, fitness & experience) to take to the water together for as many sailing days as possible.
Back to Top
RS400atC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 04 Dec 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by rb_stretch

For us, it seems that it is our better sailors who are doing the rig swapping, whereas the less experienced sailors are generally sticking to single sails. This is what has brought the issue to the fore and why we are thinking about it before it becomes an actual issue, hence the enquiry as to what other clubs are doing.

Personally I'm far more tolerant of less experienced/capable sailors doing rig swapping, but my intuition tells me it is a slippery slope if better sailors are doing it because it will just reinforce the perception that you need multi-rigs to be competitive. The very same principle is used for the giving of equipment to the best sailors - irrespective of whether there is any actual advantage, people start to perceive there is an advantage in having the equipment that the best sailors use. Also better sailors should be far more capable of handling overpowered rigs.

Anyway, as the OP, I do recognise the need to be pragmatic and recognise that the actual differences are probably not as high as we might fear.  However the perception problem is a worry because this is a far more insidious risk. Still not sure what is the right answer from the debate so far....

You need multiple sails to be properly competitive in most classes anyway, particularly Lasers where 10mins in F6 and your sail is never quite the same.
Over say three seasons it makes little difference, might even be cheaper in the long run to have small sails for windy days?
Back to Top
rb_stretch View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 23 Aug 10
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 742 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 4:37pm
For us, it seems that it is our better sailors who are doing the rig swapping, whereas the less experienced sailors are generally sticking to single sails. This is what has brought the issue to the fore and why we are thinking about it before it becomes an actual issue, hence the enquiry as to what other clubs are doing.

Personally I'm far more tolerant of less experienced/capable sailors doing rig swapping, but my intuition tells me it is a slippery slope if better sailors are doing it because it will just reinforce the perception that you need multi-rigs to be competitive. The very same principle is used for the giving of equipment to the best sailors - irrespective of whether there is any actual advantage, people start to perceive there is an advantage in having the equipment that the best sailors use. Also better sailors should be far more capable of handling overpowered rigs.

Anyway, as the OP, I do recognise the need to be pragmatic and recognise that the actual differences are probably not as high as we might fear.  However the perception problem is a worry because this is a far more insidious risk. Still not sure what is the right answer from the debate so far....


Edited by rb_stretch - 10 Mar 15 at 4:47pm
Back to Top
gordon1277 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 24 Mar 10
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 665 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 4:30pm
So what your saying is I should be allowed for light airs to be able to fit a large square topped mainsail with extra luff say adding another 2 square meters to my phantom and a Solution sail when its windy?

All of the standard handicap ( With my skill level I need all the help I can get to sail to that).
Can you imagine the abuse if I used them for the sail juice series.
Gordon
Lossc
Back to Top
Woodbotherer View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king
Avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodbotherer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 4:16pm
Honestly is this really the pursuit of the richie rich kids these days? They all have to have something about them or they wouldn't be dingho wallers, but I don't think in all my time I've ever come across a more mean, miserly bunch of tight wads in a leisure pursuit, was it invented in Scotland I wonder.

I used to despair at the GP14ers, but this thread ffs! It's just a second rig, if done properly it should be just a second sail, if only your collective designers new their arse from their elbows when it came to sail and mast design. Why the idiots that designed my EPS decided in their genius that to change rigs you need an entire lower section rather than design a smaller sail for the one rig, or design a sail with a mast extension to accommodate a light wind sail if the standard is to be the smaller rig or a smaller top section, hell it's not rocket science. On a 6 mtr mast you should be able to accommodate from 7.5 to 9.5 easily with a bit of boom and batten pockery.. Just go a bit hi aspect for the small rig and low for the big one.


Edited by Woodbotherer - 10 Mar 15 at 4:18pm
Soundcast Weatherproof Speakers
Back to Top
gordon View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Sep 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 3:53pm
JimC - I totally agree.

Gordon
Gordon
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 3:30pm
In our clubs evening series last year the best Laser sailor would drop from 4th to 5th if his Radial was handicapped as a standard rig, but in that particular series there was a big gap between 5th and 6th.

It seems to me, though that the real problem *is* perception. I know I always say look at the numbers to see what's really happening, but if Joe Budgetsailor perceives that Ritchie Richkid in the next berth is going to beat him every light wind day simply because RR's got a bigger rig up, and every heavy wind day because RR's got a smaller rig up, what happens to Joe's enthusiasm?


Edited by JimC - 10 Mar 15 at 3:31pm
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 910111213 23>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy