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The Solution.

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Woodbotherer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 9:24am
It's a difficult one to come to grips with for me, having spent years of raking rigs back and forward ten even twenty times the range you lot do and steering, lift seeking and just about every other steering control relying on small movements in that C of E over C of LR relationship. 
Which if you get it wrong so unbalances a craft without a rudder. Too upright a rig, track back close to the CB, the board stalls constantly tries to point overly high and it rails up (heels) in even the slightest breeze, it's a technique we used to make the board rail when its light, to point higher and sail faster although very uncomfortable. Our rigs rake from the bottom, with up to 30 cm of travel so whilst the foot moves forward and the mast tip back the relationship of the CE over CB doesn't alter that much and you can run in quite strong winds with the Centreboard down. In fact the rule of thumb with boards is leave the plate down at all times unless its impossible then kick it all the way up, no half measures except maybe in tight fetches.
But in a dinghy raking the rig from the top down, without the foot moving forward brings a weird feel to it which until now, with the raking cb I've never felt to be that efficient. We're also dealing with a tin rig, which is absolutely useless in my pre conceived mind at depowering, the problem with tin they have to build them so stiff because if they bend they have a tendency to stay bent as against Carbon which prime USP is its return to centre response time so having taken the heat out of a gust quickly re attaches the flow and adopts its efficient shape.
Why am I rambling about all this? I want a carbon rig I guess, is the answer to that I hate boats without them normally, this one is a little different I think because the sail is cut fairly flat and with these bonus controls possibly work aroundable. Two sails and only one race is too early to say, but I know this, if this boat had the d zero rig there wouldn't be any hesitation.

So, I wonder if anyone has rigged it with a single rope Merlin style system, clearly that's the answer.
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gordon1277 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 10:10am
Graham
The Merlin single string adjusts the shrouds (as on a 505), on the Phantom having the shrouds go slack is part of the de powering process and you would not want to pull much lowers on in comparison.
Everybody says it was Epoxy build that made the Phantom much quicker not the carbon rig so ally can flex enough you just need to work with it.
I would suggest stop altering systems you admit you dont fully understand and sail with it a lot more until you get the feel for it.
Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 11:50am
The Solutions at Hunts only have an adjustable forestay. the drop the tension off as the wind builds which gives more rake and (I believe) will allow more flex as the mast is not under as much compression from the shrouds.
Paul
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 11:54am
Originally posted by gordon1277

Everybody says it was Epoxy build that made the Phantom much quicker not the carbon rig.

Really? I'd be intrigued to see the evidence for that.

Edited by JimC - 10 Mar 15 at 11:54am
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 11:56am
I would say a lot of sail development will have helped too.....
Paul
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getafix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by gordon1277

Graham

I would suggest stop altering systems you admit you dont fully understand and sail with it a lot more until you get the feel for it.


sounds far too sensible to me....surely the more likely approach will be a riff on "hit it with increasingly bigger hammers, until it works 'properly' ".
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 12:17pm
Hi Jim
This statement has come from people like Maxi and others on the Phantom website who were sailing the phantom at the time of the changes and includes evidence of national positions etc so not just something I made up.
Now the more modern carbon rigs used today and sail makers adapting may well have taken it a bit further than when the change was made.
Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodbotherer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 12:25pm
Ah so in effect you phantomers as well as raking aft you are in fact raking aft and heeling the rig without heeling the boat. I get that, what happens to the pie and cup holders?

As to me, I shall try it in this, I just don't normally in anything else I've sailed, did it once in that 500 and felt mad, then that was a weather helming biatch at the best of times and the EPS already feels and looks like its raked too much on it's regular settings in fact I have recently gone more vertical and swear I've got a slightly better turn of speed.

So anyone else experience really noisy kickers banging about?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by Woodbotherer


So anyone else experience really noisy kickers banging about?

They will make noise especially on a non rotating mast if you have them on hard.
Paul
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Woodbotherer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodbotherer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 12:38pm
Ah, OK so it's normal then. I did have it wanged on a bit trying to get some power out of this sail.
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