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    Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 5:01pm
Jeffers I haven't seen hoards of aero owners falling to their knees because they must have a second rig.... Angry

Out of the 22 (16 delivered) at Lymington. To my knowledge everyone has a 7. Only 4 people have a second rig. One of which is Peter Barton who promotes the class and has been lending his boat to all shapes and sizes and a second who has bought a 5 so his daughter can sail it. That leaves two of us with two sizes and I am sailing this series with a 7 only.
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 4:58pm
If a club allows you to sail a Wayfarer in one race and a Pico in another and count both results in the same series, then counting an Aero 7 and an Aero 9 is fine. If they don't, then not. Trying to create one handicap for all 3 boats will simply create a mess of confusion both for clubs and for the PYAG. If they want to sail the 3 boats in class racing as a "choose you rig" thing, then it really has no effect on anyone not involved, so why not?
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by SimonW99

That comment isn't from RS, its from someone else who says they were talking to Jo Richards and he may well have said that some clubs will lock you into the lowest handicap, based on what we do at our club, but thats simply our club rules on the matter which were put in place years ago by the Laser Fleet. aeros are separate classes same as the laser.

So the designer says this and suddenly everyone who owns an Aero feels they need a smaller or bigger rig to stay competitive rather than the boats being treated as distinct classes? You also need to question where the designer was being spoken too. I would suspect at the Dinghy Show on the RS stand (but I could be wrong).

I guess this is down to the clubs to enforce, if you have a 7 you sail a 7, put a different rig on and you get scored differently.

Difficult to find the balance between getting people on the water and making sre the racing is as fair as possible.
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 4:48pm
For the very life of me I cannot see the reason for so much frenzy or getting all paranoid about manufacturer conspiracy to make more money selling rig choices. 
BTW. Surely that's what manufacturers are supposed to be applauded for doing: making boats to suit a wide a range of conditions and sailors and make money so they can thrive and provide continuity of product.

The different rigs all have different ratings. It is entirely up to Clubs to treat them as they see fit. I presume all the shouting is about series scoring? Within a single race surely they race under the allocated PY and will return as such. Of course I can see the theoretical point of a "Class" always being raced with the "perfect" rig size for the conditions having an effect on PY returns. But really, there are so many other variables affecting the accuracy of the rating system, how much difference will it make?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 4:40pm
That comment isn't from RS, its from someone else who says they were talking to Jo Richards and he may well have said that some clubs will lock you into the lowest handicap, based on what we do at our club, but thats simply our club rules on the matter which were put in place years ago by the Laser Fleet. aeros are separate classes same as the laser.
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by SimonW99

"As RS are now reportedly marketing the 3 Aero rigs are 'reef options' for 1 class this is only going to get worse and shame on RS for backtracking on this."

Where have you seen that 'reportedly' " Thats nonsense, they have and are still very clear its three separate classes for racing, exactly the same as the Laser.

On another forum from a source at RS according to the poster who is UK based.


(quoted further down in the thread too should the OP choose to remove their comment)

IF this is the way RS are going with the Aero then it is a shame a real shame. I know their execs lurk around here so maybe they could pipe up with either a confirmation or a firm denial (and I do hope it would be the latter rather than the former)......


Edited by jeffers - 09 Mar 15 at 4:30pm
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by SimonW99

"As RS are now reportedly marketing the 3 Aero rigs are 'reef options' for 1 class this is only going to get worse and shame on RS for backtracking on this."

Where have you seen that 'reportedly' " Thats nonsense, they have and are still very clear its three separate classes for racing, exactly the same as the Laser.

Think it was quoted by a dealer on SA simon, could be wrong though.  Not sure where its come from it makes no sense, if it is true i can imagine a number of peeved off people.  I expect its been taken out of context somewhere and blown out of reasoned proportion!
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by getafix

Having spent 10+ years racing yachts I find this thread laughable.  If you have a #3 headsail and it's blowing 20 knots you put the thing up, you don't carry on with #1 because that's what you used last Sunday!  If the wind keeps building, reef the main....  Why the heck should it be any different in dinghies?

The technology and fittings are there in these classes.  If it gets more people on the water on light or windy days and makes folks more comfortable about investing in stuff designed to work with their boats by manufacturers (preferably British ones he said patriotically) then great.

I hear the argument about the budget challenge and how it might be 'unfair' to some people and I say ... rubbish.  I can't think of any other hobby sport where such a thing would be a problem and it's really only at the extremes that such things would have any real impact, at which point, frankly, it's so windy that you just hang-on or go ashore to not break stuff, or you get soooo bored that you fall-asleep / go ashore for a cup of tea. 

If you feel so strongly about it, change to any one of the hundreds of classes which still exist with just the one rig/sail choice.

Really, is anyone actually saying that in a clear majority of cases that switching from a Full to Radial Laser sail or an Aero 7 to 5 will make so much difference that the sailors who don't switch (or can't) will feel terribly disadvantaged?  I raced Lasers for 7 years and never felt the need to go to the Radial once I'd outgrown it.

I agree with this however we are not talking rig swapping we are talking class swapping as that's what has been touted.  If indeed these are to be 1 boat with 3 rigs then that is fine.  Swap away, however expect the total recommended crew weight to tumble and they PY to reflect all 3 rigs (not individual numbers the system was designed for classes not seperate sub divisions within a class was it not).  

Not only that the boat to be that much more money s all 3 rigs would be needed in many cases. 

You cant have the penny and the bun.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 4:22pm
"As RS are now reportedly marketing the 3 Aero rigs are 'reef options' for 1 class this is only going to get worse and shame on RS for backtracking on this."

Where have you seen that 'reportedly' " Thats nonsense, they have and are still very clear its three separate classes for racing, exactly the same as the Laser.
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by getafix



If you feel so strongly about it, change to any one of the hundreds of classes which still exist with just the one rig/sail choice.

Really, is anyone actually saying that in a clear majority of cases that switching from a Full to Radial Laser sail or an Aero 7 to 5 will make so much difference that the sailors who don't switch (or can't) will feel terribly disadvantaged?  I raced Lasers for 7 years and never felt the need to go to the Radial once I'd outgrown it.

I think you have kind of missed the point.

Those who feel hard done by are the ones who either cannot (because their class does not allow) or they cannot afford it. This creates cheque book sailing in the eyes of some and adds more fuel to the elitist fire. Not to mention those who get p*ssed off and leave the sport.

As RS are now reportedly marketing the 3 Aero rigs are 'reef options' for 1 class this is only going to get worse and shame on RS for backtracking on this.
Paul
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