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Multi-rig racing

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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Multi-rig racing
    Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 2:45pm
Maybe Lasers, Blazes, Aeros and Zeros should get together for a series of handicap races where the rigs can be any size. Other classes could join in - I've often wondered how a Firefly with an Albacore rig would go in a force 1/2!
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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getafix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 3:15pm
Having spent 10+ years racing yachts I find this thread laughable.  If you have a #3 headsail and it's blowing 20 knots you put the thing up, you don't carry on with #1 because that's what you used last Sunday!  If the wind keeps building, reef the main....  Why the heck should it be any different in dinghies?

The technology and fittings are there in these classes.  If it gets more people on the water on light or windy days and makes folks more comfortable about investing in stuff designed to work with their boats by manufacturers (preferably British ones he said patriotically) then great.

I hear the argument about the budget challenge and how it might be 'unfair' to some people and I say ... rubbish.  I can't think of any other hobby sport where such a thing would be a problem and it's really only at the extremes that such things would have any real impact, at which point, frankly, it's so windy that you just hang-on or go ashore to not break stuff, or you get soooo bored that you fall-asleep / go ashore for a cup of tea. 

If you feel so strongly about it, change to any one of the hundreds of classes which still exist with just the one rig/sail choice.

Really, is anyone actually saying that in a clear majority of cases that switching from a Full to Radial Laser sail or an Aero 7 to 5 will make so much difference that the sailors who don't switch (or can't) will feel terribly disadvantaged?  I raced Lasers for 7 years and never felt the need to go to the Radial once I'd outgrown it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 3:24pm
I am sure the Burghfield Bar was awash with mutterings about PNs and bandits over the weekend.

Paul - Well quite .... but then more than a few of us were racing elsewhere of course. Wink 

Rupert - I rather like the idea .... 'cat herding' comes to mind.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by Do Different

There y'go again, straight to the negative.

Blaze720: The voice of reason, if the manufacturer embraces it why should we worry.



If the manufacturer embraces it they should create a multi-rig class, so that people know what they are buying into. Coming clean on what the class policy actually is allows heavy or cost conscious sailors to make an informed decision, rather than believe the marketing blurb.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 3:34pm

Hi 'Stretch'

We have pasted CA (and our) policy from earlier in this thread below again as a reminder.  Other classes/makers will have their own approaches and from those I've read all have been very clear so far. 

Mike L.     

The Blaze family has three sails of different sizes that can ALL be used on the same set of standard spars.  Fire (8.8m), Blaze (10.4m) and Halo (11.5m) are however raced as totally different classes even when they share meetings.  If you wish to 'mix' your use of them then you are racing in a different class and all that goes with that - easy to understand and clear.

The sails have the NAME on them boldly displayed so it is very obvious and we and the CA have been very clear on this issue since day 1 as well.     

The ‘alternatives’, 'Fire' and 'Halo' are selling well and this year the major Blaze opens will have a separate start for them.  Note the separate bit.

The Blaze Nationals at Hayling Island in early July will not be the Nationals for either of these sister classes ....

Apart from all that the CA is pretty relaxed about expanding the Blaze family.  Like many classes we have growing groups of both 'senior' and 'junior' helms and of course 'larger' helms.  Pleasingly 'Fire' is not only appealing to the light(er), young(er) and old(er) - its also beginning to attract and keep more female helms.

Another plus is that in the age of web forecasts that some argue is reducing those prepared to travel to events owners can easily bring along 2 sails now.   If you are light and it is blowing the proverbial dogs off chains on arrival you can drop a sail size and still enjoy a decent meeting.  Conversely if you are on the large size and it is disappointingly light you can switch from Blaze to Halo etc.  A lot of the time of course the forecast will be wrong anyway ...but you will be there and can make a decision on the spot.   This is not even diluting Blaze numbers however as more people are pitching up at meetings as a result anyway - and when we crunch the numbers later in the season it is looking likely to be more positive all round.

The alternatives ?  Own multiple classes or just stay at home, or sit on the shore  .... not as attractive surely to owners or to any inclusive leaning class.  We want more of the people to be attracted to and be suited to the boat in more conditions.  All you need is the sails, no need for additional poles, mast sections and so on.

Mike L.

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Edited by blaze720 - 09 Mar 15 at 3:34pm
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by getafix



If you feel so strongly about it, change to any one of the hundreds of classes which still exist with just the one rig/sail choice.

Really, is anyone actually saying that in a clear majority of cases that switching from a Full to Radial Laser sail or an Aero 7 to 5 will make so much difference that the sailors who don't switch (or can't) will feel terribly disadvantaged?  I raced Lasers for 7 years and never felt the need to go to the Radial once I'd outgrown it.

I think you have kind of missed the point.

Those who feel hard done by are the ones who either cannot (because their class does not allow) or they cannot afford it. This creates cheque book sailing in the eyes of some and adds more fuel to the elitist fire. Not to mention those who get p*ssed off and leave the sport.

As RS are now reportedly marketing the 3 Aero rigs are 'reef options' for 1 class this is only going to get worse and shame on RS for backtracking on this.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 4:22pm
"As RS are now reportedly marketing the 3 Aero rigs are 'reef options' for 1 class this is only going to get worse and shame on RS for backtracking on this."

Where have you seen that 'reportedly' " Thats nonsense, they have and are still very clear its three separate classes for racing, exactly the same as the Laser.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by getafix

Having spent 10+ years racing yachts I find this thread laughable.  If you have a #3 headsail and it's blowing 20 knots you put the thing up, you don't carry on with #1 because that's what you used last Sunday!  If the wind keeps building, reef the main....  Why the heck should it be any different in dinghies?

The technology and fittings are there in these classes.  If it gets more people on the water on light or windy days and makes folks more comfortable about investing in stuff designed to work with their boats by manufacturers (preferably British ones he said patriotically) then great.

I hear the argument about the budget challenge and how it might be 'unfair' to some people and I say ... rubbish.  I can't think of any other hobby sport where such a thing would be a problem and it's really only at the extremes that such things would have any real impact, at which point, frankly, it's so windy that you just hang-on or go ashore to not break stuff, or you get soooo bored that you fall-asleep / go ashore for a cup of tea. 

If you feel so strongly about it, change to any one of the hundreds of classes which still exist with just the one rig/sail choice.

Really, is anyone actually saying that in a clear majority of cases that switching from a Full to Radial Laser sail or an Aero 7 to 5 will make so much difference that the sailors who don't switch (or can't) will feel terribly disadvantaged?  I raced Lasers for 7 years and never felt the need to go to the Radial once I'd outgrown it.

I agree with this however we are not talking rig swapping we are talking class swapping as that's what has been touted.  If indeed these are to be 1 boat with 3 rigs then that is fine.  Swap away, however expect the total recommended crew weight to tumble and they PY to reflect all 3 rigs (not individual numbers the system was designed for classes not seperate sub divisions within a class was it not).  

Not only that the boat to be that much more money s all 3 rigs would be needed in many cases. 

You cant have the penny and the bun.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by SimonW99

"As RS are now reportedly marketing the 3 Aero rigs are 'reef options' for 1 class this is only going to get worse and shame on RS for backtracking on this."

Where have you seen that 'reportedly' " Thats nonsense, they have and are still very clear its three separate classes for racing, exactly the same as the Laser.

Think it was quoted by a dealer on SA simon, could be wrong though.  Not sure where its come from it makes no sense, if it is true i can imagine a number of peeved off people.  I expect its been taken out of context somewhere and blown out of reasoned proportion!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by SimonW99

"As RS are now reportedly marketing the 3 Aero rigs are 'reef options' for 1 class this is only going to get worse and shame on RS for backtracking on this."

Where have you seen that 'reportedly' " Thats nonsense, they have and are still very clear its three separate classes for racing, exactly the same as the Laser.

On another forum from a source at RS according to the poster who is UK based.


(quoted further down in the thread too should the OP choose to remove their comment)

IF this is the way RS are going with the Aero then it is a shame a real shame. I know their execs lurk around here so maybe they could pipe up with either a confirmation or a firm denial (and I do hope it would be the latter rather than the former)......


Edited by jeffers - 09 Mar 15 at 4:30pm
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