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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Multi-rig racing
    Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 3:34pm

Hi 'Stretch'

We have pasted CA (and our) policy from earlier in this thread below again as a reminder.  Other classes/makers will have their own approaches and from those I've read all have been very clear so far. 

Mike L.     

The Blaze family has three sails of different sizes that can ALL be used on the same set of standard spars.  Fire (8.8m), Blaze (10.4m) and Halo (11.5m) are however raced as totally different classes even when they share meetings.  If you wish to 'mix' your use of them then you are racing in a different class and all that goes with that - easy to understand and clear.

The sails have the NAME on them boldly displayed so it is very obvious and we and the CA have been very clear on this issue since day 1 as well.     

The ‘alternatives’, 'Fire' and 'Halo' are selling well and this year the major Blaze opens will have a separate start for them.  Note the separate bit.

The Blaze Nationals at Hayling Island in early July will not be the Nationals for either of these sister classes ....

Apart from all that the CA is pretty relaxed about expanding the Blaze family.  Like many classes we have growing groups of both 'senior' and 'junior' helms and of course 'larger' helms.  Pleasingly 'Fire' is not only appealing to the light(er), young(er) and old(er) - its also beginning to attract and keep more female helms.

Another plus is that in the age of web forecasts that some argue is reducing those prepared to travel to events owners can easily bring along 2 sails now.   If you are light and it is blowing the proverbial dogs off chains on arrival you can drop a sail size and still enjoy a decent meeting.  Conversely if you are on the large size and it is disappointingly light you can switch from Blaze to Halo etc.  A lot of the time of course the forecast will be wrong anyway ...but you will be there and can make a decision on the spot.   This is not even diluting Blaze numbers however as more people are pitching up at meetings as a result anyway - and when we crunch the numbers later in the season it is looking likely to be more positive all round.

The alternatives ?  Own multiple classes or just stay at home, or sit on the shore  .... not as attractive surely to owners or to any inclusive leaning class.  We want more of the people to be attracted to and be suited to the boat in more conditions.  All you need is the sails, no need for additional poles, mast sections and so on.

Mike L.

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Edited by blaze720 - 09 Mar 15 at 3:34pm
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rb_stretch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by Do Different

There y'go again, straight to the negative.

Blaze720: The voice of reason, if the manufacturer embraces it why should we worry.



If the manufacturer embraces it they should create a multi-rig class, so that people know what they are buying into. Coming clean on what the class policy actually is allows heavy or cost conscious sailors to make an informed decision, rather than believe the marketing blurb.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 3:24pm
I am sure the Burghfield Bar was awash with mutterings about PNs and bandits over the weekend.

Paul - Well quite .... but then more than a few of us were racing elsewhere of course. Wink 

Rupert - I rather like the idea .... 'cat herding' comes to mind.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 3:15pm
Having spent 10+ years racing yachts I find this thread laughable.  If you have a #3 headsail and it's blowing 20 knots you put the thing up, you don't carry on with #1 because that's what you used last Sunday!  If the wind keeps building, reef the main....  Why the heck should it be any different in dinghies?

The technology and fittings are there in these classes.  If it gets more people on the water on light or windy days and makes folks more comfortable about investing in stuff designed to work with their boats by manufacturers (preferably British ones he said patriotically) then great.

I hear the argument about the budget challenge and how it might be 'unfair' to some people and I say ... rubbish.  I can't think of any other hobby sport where such a thing would be a problem and it's really only at the extremes that such things would have any real impact, at which point, frankly, it's so windy that you just hang-on or go ashore to not break stuff, or you get soooo bored that you fall-asleep / go ashore for a cup of tea. 

If you feel so strongly about it, change to any one of the hundreds of classes which still exist with just the one rig/sail choice.

Really, is anyone actually saying that in a clear majority of cases that switching from a Full to Radial Laser sail or an Aero 7 to 5 will make so much difference that the sailors who don't switch (or can't) will feel terribly disadvantaged?  I raced Lasers for 7 years and never felt the need to go to the Radial once I'd outgrown it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 2:45pm
Maybe Lasers, Blazes, Aeros and Zeros should get together for a series of handicap races where the rigs can be any size. Other classes could join in - I've often wondered how a Firefly with an Albacore rig would go in a force 1/2!
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by blaze720



Get that alternative small/large rig if needed and simply get out there if you can whenever conditons dictate it right for you and enjoy being on the water for more of the time.   Leave the would be purists and the pedants banging on about 'other classes', PN stuff and 'bandits' if they want in their preferred natural habitat on shore and in the bar ...  Wink 

Few arguments are won on forums and for certain far less enjoyment is to be had at sailing clubs when you are off the water ! 

Mike L. 

 

I am sure the Burghfield Bar was awash with mutterings about PNs and bandits over the weekend  Wink.
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 2:25pm
Additonal participation is surely in the common interest for both owners and manufacturers alike.  Nothing wrong with that in my book.   I get to see people sitting on the side whenever it blows far too often regularly at my own club and elsewhere, often in nothing more than a moderate breeze, some who apparently even then think it not 'fair' that others are still out there enjoying something different.  (The irony of it !)

'More people for more of the time' is the idea and why on earth not ?  Alternative sails is not exactly a new concept either ..... different 'cuts' and sizes for many of the development classes are permitted and multiple sail sizes in one-designs such as the Laser and most racing yachts.  It has been done for ever really.  When a lot of us raced boards in the 80's and after you were partially regarded as having 'screwed up' competitively if you selected the wrong size for your weight and the prevailing conditons.

Get that alternative small/large rig if needed and simply get out there if you can whenever conditons dictate it right for you and enjoy being on the water for more of the time.   Leave the would be purists and the pedants banging on about 'other classes', PN stuff and 'bandits' if they want in their preferred natural habitat on shore and in the bar ...  Wink 

Few arguments are won on forums and for certain far less enjoyment is to be had at sailing clubs when you are off the water ! 

Mike L. 

  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by deadrock

Originally posted by jeffers

With boats the are designed to be reefed that is fine....none of the boats being discussed allow reefing they are to all intents and purposes different classes.

Not quite, Paul. After a competitor reefed a sail at the UK Laser Nationals about five years ago, the issue of reefing was raised with ILCA. As the rules didn't say reefing was allowed, it was technically illegal under the Class Rules. (In the '70s reefing had been accepted for high-wind races before the Radial arrived, but it had dropped out of fashion when the two smaller rigs arrived.) You'll be pleased to know that the sensible young Radial sailor was not penalised at the event, as a phone conversation with ILCA produced an interpretation that reefing was acceptable as a safety measure.

To clarify the matter, there is now Rule 27: REEFING
The sail may be reefed by rolling the sail around the mast 1 or 2 times.

The reason the rule doesn't allow more than two rolls is to avoid a dangerous amount of lee helm.

Thanks for the clarification on that.

To be fair I would never have reefed my Laser but would always drop to a radial if conditions were extreme (but would sail as a radial not a standard).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 1:55pm
Fair enough Jeffers, whatever policy is adopted there will always be examples of winners and losers.

I guess it is down to Clubs to gauge which approach is best suited to the majority of their members, fleets and particular circumstances.

Sometimes I do think though that it possible to talk a small issue up into a big one. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote deadrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by jeffers

With boats the are designed to be reefed that is fine....none of the boats being discussed allow reefing they are to all intents and purposes different classes.

Not quite, Paul. After a competitor reefed a sail at the UK Laser Nationals about five years ago, the issue of reefing was raised with ILCA. As the rules didn't say reefing was allowed, it was technically illegal under the Class Rules. (In the '70s reefing had been accepted for high-wind races before the Radial arrived, but it had dropped out of fashion when the two smaller rigs arrived.) You'll be pleased to know that the sensible young Radial sailor was not penalised at the event, as a phone conversation with ILCA produced an interpretation that reefing was acceptable as a safety measure.

To clarify the matter, there is now Rule 27: REEFING
The sail may be reefed by rolling the sail around the mast 1 or 2 times.

The reason the rule doesn't allow more than two rolls is to avoid a dangerous amount of lee helm.


Edited by deadrock - 09 Mar 15 at 1:43pm
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