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The Evolution of Expense
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Evolution of Expense
    Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 9:35pm
possibly the latter based on the fact that every other sport seems to have a structure of some sort. Sailing didn't.

Years ago sailing was something you did on your local puddle and occasionally the local star would disappear for a week or two to an "open" meeting, only to return and continue to thrash everyone. How people got into doing the olympics was anyones guess (obviously it did happen but I never knew anyone that knew how this happened).

Now there is a clear defined path that gives any parent an understanding about how little Billy can progress to the top. Obviously in most cases this doesn't happen, but there is a path. When I was young as previously said, it was a mystery. Seemed to be who you knew. 

Perhaps, despite all the berating of the squad system, it has actually empowered the masses rather than denigrating them?
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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piglet View Drop Down
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Posts: 514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote piglet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 9:39pm
sidestep slightly.
little darling No.1 who fronted up to me in spring 2012 and said 'I'm done with Toppers & squads' had some good boat blasting last year and is now making noises about a Blaze(Bleuchspit), Given that he is doing A levels and skint do I say 'get a job son' or do I fund it on the basis of a healthy activity?
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craiggo View Drop Down
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 9:43pm
What happened to the money from the sale of the Topper and associated paraphernalia? If they spent it, then tough, they need to get a job, if they kept it in a jar to reinvest at a later date, sorted!
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 9:57pm
You should fund it for him, if he loves the sport and is working hard at school then it's surely a good thing?  However I would always make it clear that the boat is not his to sell when he feels like it.  I'm all for kids working and understanding the meaning of money, but during a-levels it's important for him to unwind, but also work hard!  By working hard that doesn't mean every available minute in tesco to try and fund a sailing habit 
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 10:27pm
Originally posted by maxibuddah


Originally posted by Rupert

The squads tend to be where keeping up with the Jones's is at its worst. Yes, it happens at club and open meeting type stuff too, but it isn't gospel, as Jack Sparrow's kid found in the oppies, but just one way of doing things.No wonder the Tera has caught on.

I'm afraid to burst your bubble Rupert, but the Tera's have a squad system too.....


I know, and there is a limit to how many changes can be made to the boat. Yes, there will soon be old boats, but compared to the oppy, it is very one design.
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piglet View Drop Down
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Posts: 514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote piglet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 11:11pm
Not done Oppies, or Terras
but
In Toppers it was hard for the coach to teach from script if some boats were inadequately equipped.
Sure, some kids will do well with lower or just different kit but they are not going to get the best out of the squad experience.
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getafix View Drop Down
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 15 at 8:04am
IMO sailing in groups, teams, squads (whatever you call them) is the best way for juniors and teenagers to enjoy their sailing and racing.  The squad system doesn't encourage buying expensive upgrades for boats like the mast step but it does mean a hefty investment in sails, petrol and other travel expenses.

Dinghy sailing has always been a ripe ground for the 'buy some bling, even if you don't need it' savvy product developer and marketeer.  Just like other hobbies and sports (>£2k carbon road wheelset, >£100 tennis rackets, ridiculous flourescent football boots etc...) people have, rightly, figured out that where we might go to Tesco and just buy the cheapest kettle we can find that looks half-decent, when it comes to pimping our craft, we'll use a completly different set of criteria
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 15 at 8:11am
So, as usual when we discuss squads, we find that not all squads are the same and some suit some people more than they do others.

The boat funding thing was interesting. "A bit of each" would seem a good compromise. I bought Rupert's on a Lightning, but there was self interest involved; someone to race against! The RS600 or whatever will need more input from him, one day.
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 15 at 8:16am
Originally posted by getafix

IMO sailing in groups, teams, squads (whatever you call them) is the best way for juniors and teenagers to enjoy their sailing and racing.  The squad system doesn't encourage buying expensive upgrades for boats like the mast step but it does mean a hefty investment in sails, petrol and other travel expenses.

Dinghy sailing has always been a ripe ground for the 'buy some bling, even if you don't need it' savvy product developer and marketeer.  Just like other hobbies and sports (>£2k carbon road wheelset, >£100 tennis rackets, ridiculous flourescent football boots etc...) people have, rightly, figured out that where we might go to Tesco and just buy the cheapest kettle we can find that looks half-decent, when it comes to pimping our craft, we'll use a completly different set of criteria

Agree with this, I have owned and spent fortunes on road bikes, that are lighter than UCI weight limits for a race bike.  In fact I have owned some very top end kit.  However i still couldn't beat some of my segment times I set on my old trusty Trek 1200, which was a £300 starter bike.  So the £2k carbon wheels, full durarace was wasted.  But even still I would spend £200 on Gucci handlebars.  Ultimately it's my choice, much like the oppy parents choice how they spend their money.  If this is a step to far none will sell, I suspect however they wil sell a load of them.  Also whilst £80 to some is a huge amount of money to others it's nothing.  Luckily the oppy market seems well served so there is a product to suit every budget!
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 15 at 9:12am
I think that the problem with the squad system is more that it creams off talent and takes it away from local clubs.  I am all for training and coaching within clubs at all levels.  I think that coaching is valuable at club level mostly to improve the back of the fleet, so that they may keep engaged and stick with the sport, even if the same people win every week.

The grass roots of our sport are the clubs, the RYA should consider this more when making out their strategies.  They could start by banning competitors from using RYA as a club when competing in open events.

They could make participation in club programmes compulsory for anyone who receives any form of grant.

My vote is for Clive to develop the RYA club programme, with Jerry advising on the socials...we couldn't lose!
Happily living in the past
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