New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Multi-rig racing
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Multi-rig racing

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 23>
Author
RS400atC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 04 Dec 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3011
Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Multi-rig racing
    Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 6:59pm
In the past, many dinghies were sailed with a choice of flat sails for windy days, maybe with less roach or whatever.
Yachts still do that.
Some people will choose their spinnaker according to conditions.
So long as the NoR and SI's are clear, I don't really care, but more people on the water has to be the aim.
Has there ever been a genuine case of it ruining a series?
Any more than the vagaries of PY in disparate boats does anyway?
Or is it really a theoretical thing?

In our club, I can see it might give RS100's a leg-up in stronger winds and reachy courses if they were encouraged to use smaller sails. But only to the extent of putting them back where they were against two handers in lighter winds.

Of course it means you need to own 2 or 3 sails, but the top people always do anyway.
Back to Top
Do Different View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 26 Jan 12
Location: North
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 7:11pm
Thumbs Up Craiggo. Certainly for smaller clubs and turnouts anyway. I guess if you are fielding big fleets there is a case to be made for pedantry.

We are going a step further and scoring series for crews also, so you could helm your singlehander and crew for a mate or even tart around for one an' all and win a series, if you were good enough and in demand. Wink

Going all out for rewarding participation.

  


Back to Top
rb_stretch View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 23 Aug 10
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 742
Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 7:22pm
Assuming we let there be a free for all on rig swapping and let's fast forward a few years. The Aero 5 and 7 rig have handicaps that are very close to the 9 rig because they only get used on strong wind days. As Jeremyc points out they are faster than the full rig in strong wind days so this isn't just a theoretical thing.

Anyone who buys an Aero 7 will then find that they are completely uncompetitive with just a 7 rig and can't sail to the handicap. Their only choice is to invest in a quiver of sails to sail to their PY, but they don't have the money to do that, get disillusioned with the supposedly cheap and simple sailing and give up....

Similarly 90kg sailor buys a Aero 9, but finds that nearly everyone else sailing the 9 is far lighter and quicker in up to force 3 and can seemingly sail to the Aero 9 handicap it now has. When it gets to force 4 they change down, but Aero 9 sailor can still only just keep up. At no point does the Aero 9 sailor seem to be competitive....ditto above.




Edited by rb_stretch - 06 Mar 15 at 7:23pm
Back to Top
Jeremyc View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 27 Jul 09
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 110
Post Options Post Options   Quote Jeremyc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 7:28pm
Originally posted by rb_stretch



Assuming we let there be a free for all on rig swapping and let's fast forward a few years. The Aero 5 and 7 rig have handicaps that are very close to the 9 rig because they only get used on strong wind days. As Jeremyc points out they are faster than the full rig in strong wind days so this isn't just a theoretical thing.
Anyone who buys an Aero 7 will then find that they are completely uncompetitive with just a 7 rig and can't sail to the handicap. Their only choice is to invest in a quiver of sails to sail to their PY, but they don't have the money to do that, get disillusioned with the supposedly cheap and simple sailing and give up....

Similarly 90kg sailor buys a Aero 9, but finds that nearly everyone else sailing the 9 is far lighter and quicker in up to force 3 and can seemingly sail to the Aero 9 handicap it now has. When it gets to force 4 they change down, but Aero 9 sailor can still only just keep up. At no point does the Aero 9 sailor seem to be competitive....ditto above.



Exactly....

Edited by Jeremyc - 06 Mar 15 at 7:29pm
N12- pure joy
D-Zero more pure joy
Back to Top
craiggo View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 01 Apr 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1810
Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 8:39pm
While I can see your point to an extent, remember that there will still be smaller kids in the 5 who will struggle in the big breeze bringing the average back down. Even if you were right and the 5 handicap got faster, I'd wager that the top guys in the 5s would still be so far infront of the average 7 sailor that they could still beat them.

There is of course sense if you have a one design fleet that everyone sails the same or if you shrink the rig you still sail off scratch.
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 8:42pm
Will the timings be sent back to the RYA as sailing the correct rig? I suspect in many cases, not. So then you get an Aero 5 in a blow being returned as an Aero 9.

I guess I'm of the "sail what you like" school, but am unconvinced by it being scored in the same set of points.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
craiggo View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 01 Apr 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1810
Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 8:53pm
That's where Sailwave needs to improve. Currently you can change the PY from Race to race to reflect a change of boat, but currently there is no way of inserting the actual class into the race. I know the sailwave guys have looked at it, but not been able to resolve it, perhaps due to different priorities.
Back to Top
blaze720 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1635
Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 15 at 1:15am
Delated - for a quiet life !  Wink


Edited by blaze720 - 07 Mar 15 at 6:24am
Back to Top
sandgrounder View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 01 Apr 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 220
Post Options Post Options   Quote sandgrounder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 15 at 2:48pm
One thing I've learned from sailing the D-Zero in 4 of the Sailjuice Winter Series (Handicap) events through the UK winter, with 25 D-Zeros entered, is that in the 3 events I sailed in conditions significantly greater than 20 knots at times, I managed to remain competitive with the larger 8.1m2 (Grey) rig, despite being relatively small at 5'8" and 75 kg (165 lbs). It should be noted that sailors of up to 100 kg have also proven to be competitive in the boat over the winter.

In the Laser, which I sailed for several decades, I would generally need to switch down from Standard to Radial rig in 15 knots+, in order to remain competitive, and would generally be quicker round the course than had I been in the Standard rig.

I am fairly certain that in the D-Zero I would not have been quicker round the course during these windy events with the smaller Blue rig, and feel that the boat rewards good technique and effective, yet simple, tuning of the rig, rather than simple physical attributes.

From what I have observed to date I would estimate that the rig switch from Grey Rig to Blue Rig in say 15 knots of breeze would apply to someone of approximately 70 kg. So from what I can see, in general the Blue Rig is suitable for ladies and youths and the larger Grey Rig is suitable for most adult males, across a large range of wind speeds. I don't believe that rig switching will become a widespread practice in the D-Zero.
Back to Top
zippyRN View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 14 Sep 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 437
Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 15 at 6:13pm
the interesting thing with 'multi rig' racing 
is that it goes on in other classes and no-one bats and eyelid 

 different cut  sails ( both white and  spi) , use of genoas and jibs on classes with both ... 

but it;s suddenly an issue with  siungle handers becasue  there is sufficient data to produce seperate  PYs  for the different rigs and  with Laser there was the promotion of the raser ladial as a seperate class  for girls and lightweights 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 23>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy