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Multi-rig racing

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Multi-rig racing
    Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 1:47pm
Its hard:

On the one hand allowing multiple rigs, even different classes under a single entry allows more people on the water and makes it more likely that people can sail every weekend they can. Sailing a two hander when you have crew, single hander when you haven't. And that's surely a good thing.

On the other hand if we have the perception that you have to have multiple rigs to sail competitively, then the cost of sailing and, maybe even more important the hassle factor has gone up. And equally surely that's a bad thing.

Personally I'm completely torn. Both options seem to me to present excellent arguments.

What I have wondered is if whether we should have a qualification type thing, and if you haven't sailed, what, 80% of the races that count in one particular class/rig configuration then you aren't eligible for series prizes. That way you can use different rig combinations to help you sail every week, but not to help you win series. Its also something that's relatively easy to work out at the end of the series.



Edited by JimC - 06 Mar 15 at 1:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 1:28pm
Our view is it allows more people on the water over a wider wind range and thats something we want to encourage. If a 9 sailor, you always have to put down a 9 so there is no back adjustment in a series. If you start with a 7 you can't go up to a 9 as it then has a second entry. With three rigs it allows enough flexibility for most adult sailors.

Obviously the Opens are sailed by class.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 1:28pm
Yep.

The principle would be the same as switching the hull under a common rig. You know, using a nicely rounded hull with loads of rocker on the light days and a low rocker, chined hull when it's windier. I can't imagine many people arguing that is the same class that should be sailed off a common handicap relating to one class or the other.

Edited by Peaky - 06 Mar 15 at 1:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by Peaky

The simplest thing, I think, is to count each rig entry as a new entry in the series.
If you start in the aero 7 and then stick a 9 rig on for race 5, you'd have to redo the results for all previous races if you take the stand of applying the lowest handicap. And even then, if you only use a rig in its optimum condition you will of course beat the handicap which is based on a wide variety of conditions. So perhaps something even lower than the fastest handicap shouldbe used?
Finally, it's not rig switching - it's class switching. Just like sailing a 420 when it's windy and a Firely when it's light. He with the biggest fleet (wallet) will win.
I am happy for someone to sail a different class every week, especially if that's what it takes to keep them involved. But I don't see why they should expect that to count as a single entry to the disadvantage of everyone else.

Peaky, just read your response after I posted mine and I can see we are thinking exactly alike. Being entirely fair, a multi-rig boat ought to have a lower handicap again compared to the largest rig.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by SimonW99

We now have 22 aero's on order with, I believe , 15 already arrived as of this lunchtime, so we have had an ongoing dialogue with the race committee and have made the current club racing rules clearer, but a continuation of what was in place.

In short, you can sail what you want for an individual race and you get handicapped accordingly. However, if you want a series result, you have to always enter with the lowest handicap of the rigs you will use. Its not perfect, but it means that the big guy changing down in a blow doesn't gain an advantage as he still has to sail to his 'big rig' handicap. You can enter with a smaller rig, but you end up with two series entries.

Its simple and doesn't give the RO a headache.... Smile

 

The fear I had is that multi-rigs boats raced with multi-mutiple rigs in a series reduces the competitive weight range of a boat because it is the heavy weights who get disadvantaged. In other words the reason the smaller rigs have a slower a slower PY is because they are slower on average across all conditions. However a fully powered up smaller rig will be faster than a fully powered up large rig due to less drag. Therefore a lighter sailer can power themselves up in a force 2 with a big rig, change down to a smaller rig in force 4 when they are fully powered up in that etc etc. Meanwhile the heavyweight has to sail not powered up until they reach force 3 to 4 and then probably never need to change down anyway. If both use the same PY (of the big rig), the lighter sailor has the advantage.


That is the theory, but of course practice needs some level of compromise hence why I was curious what others do.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 1:14pm
The simplest thing, I think, is to count each rig entry as a new entry in the series.
If you start in the aero 7 and then stick a 9 rig on for race 5, you'd have to redo the results for all previous races if you take the stand of applying the lowest handicap. And even then, if you only use a rig in its optimum condition you will of course beat the handicap which is based on a wide variety of conditions. So perhaps something even lower than the fastest handicap shouldbe used?
Finally, it's not rig switching - it's class switching. Just like sailing a 420 when it's windy and a Firely when it's light. He with the biggest fleet (wallet) will win.
I am happy for someone to sail a different class every week, especially if that's what it takes to keep them involved. But I don't see why they should expect that to count as a single entry to the disadvantage of everyone else.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 1:04pm
We now have 22 aero's on order with, I believe , 15 already arrived as of this lunchtime, so we have had an ongoing dialogue with the race committee and have made the current club racing rules clearer, but a continuation of what was in place.

In short, you can sail what you want for an individual race and you get handicapped accordingly. However, if you want a series result, you have to always enter with the lowest handicap of the rigs you will use. Its not perfect, but it means that the big guy changing down in a blow doesn't gain an advantage as he still has to sail to his 'big rig' handicap. You can enter with a smaller rig, but you end up with two series entries.

Its simple and doesn't give the RO a headache.... Smile

 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by Woodbotherer

So what handicap do you bandits apply to the Fire?
1056, and that's as far as I'll follow you off-topic.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodbotherer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 12:22pm
So what handicap do you bandits apply to the Fire? Same as the one Mike used to rob the chocolates in the Round Sheppy? 1071 wasn't it,? That's nearly as bad as going round in a V3000 off 1007. LOL

Edited by Woodbotherer - 06 Mar 15 at 12:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 15 at 12:15pm
We decided many years ago to allow free rig-swapping with application of the appropriate PY for the rig of the day for Lasers, just like we allow free use of Rooster or alternative Laser sails, UNTIL the problem arises that the boats concerned were winning unduly in the perception of club members.  

So far,  that has yet to happen, and on our tidal waters the Lasers are on the back foot against e.g. Blazes and Wayfarers.

We've just sleep-walked into applying the same philosophy to Blaze sailors who switch between standard and Fire sails (the sail-switching has brought nothing, however, esp when switching to the wrong one for the day!), so I guess we'll do the same with any Aeros or Zeros that turn up.

In my experience, the perceived advantage of such things as rig-switching, carbon masts, and weight reduction, although real, usually exceeds in the eyes of competitors the real advantage, so I think our policy is on the safe side.
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