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getafix View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 Mar 15 at 10:10am
Sounds miss-able.  Should be somewhere in the midlands so more people can get to it.  That said, I know a couple of new-to-the-sport people who went and said it was great.  So perhaps we're a bit jaded.  I still look back with rosy-tinted-specs at the Crystal Palace days....
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Posts: 143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 15 at 10:24am
"So perhaps we're a bit jaded".

I think there's a lot of jaded people on here.
I thought it was great.

Just because the theme this year seemed to be on dinghy cruising....

(....so have you heard the one about the person who wants to sail across the Atlantic in a dinghy?....)
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 15 at 11:17am
Having come through the servants' entrance both days, I didn't see as much as I wanted to of the dinghy cruising part of the show in the hallway. Was it good?

As for jaded and not enjoying it - nope, had a great time, as did Rupertson, who is already planning next year. Child 2 also had a wonderful time on the Sunday, running round collecting everything in sight - surprised she didn't blag a free boat. Wonderful now the kids are old enough to range around by themselves. My wife spent a lot of time talking to Firefly sailors and drinking tea!
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 15 at 11:41am
Originally posted by davidyacht

Originally posted by Null

David, that's a bit unfair.  From a zero perspective, we had class association members manning the stand on both days.  I was there Saturday we had about 4 class members on the stand at anyone time, with Dan Holman around to field questions and Rodney on the Devoti stand.  I was talking to someone virtually all day.  The stand was frankly rediculously busy.   In fact I have never worked on a stand at the show like it! So saying couldn't be bothered is frankly wrong!  I was up at 5 am to get to the show, I didn't walk around I worked as did the other volunteers.  I can't comment on the rs commercial stand, but we were like I say a class if volunteers and I know how hard everyone worked.

Maybe I was a little sweeping ... However I did have a good look at the D0 since I have never seen one in the flesh, and never had my ear bent, which may or may not have been a good thing!

I fully accept that I am full of prejudices, but my problem with the Aero and to a lesser extent the D0 is hat I think that the technical aspects of the rigs have been stripped out in the pursuit of simplification and rationalisation in order to achieve price points, don't get me wrong, I can see why you might prefer either of these boats to a Laser, but I enjoy fiddling with all the variables on my Solo...

So what can you change or fiddle with on a Solo that you cant on a D-Zero?  other than centre board 'Rake'
The Zero has an adjustable mast foot position (same as a solo) Chocks (same as a solo) Cunningham, Kicker, Outhall, Traveller....All the same as a Solo.  It uses a Carbon two piece Rig, which probably costs more due to being un-stayed than a Solo mast.  It uses a halyard system much like the solo, but a Halyard lock, which is superior to many rope or rack and wire systems.  I can't see (from a zero perspective)  where the compromise has been over usability vs. price point.  I cant comment on the Aero but have my own views which i wont bore everyone with again.  I understand what you are saying, its just in reality its not the case.  The difference in cost will be down to the Solo having a ruleset that stops advancements in technology (alloy spars) and the fact it was design to be built in wood not composites so modern boats will take longer and cost more to build.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 15 at 11:44am
"and the fact it was design to be built in wood not composites so modern boats will take longer and cost more to build."

That really true? I could see the opposite being the case, as the material usage in the old boat is compromised by the design being for a different material.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 15 at 11:55am
I'd agree with David to a point- a Solo is a more sophisticated choice in some ways.  You can choose hull shapes with different rocker profiles, spars with different bend characteristics.  Foils sections can vary and all these subtle differences enable a level of customisation we just don't have in the Zero - for good reason, but I don't think 'price point' was the key driver.

There's evolution in the sail design which will not stop - a new North Solo sail is £1200, a new North D-Zero sail is £899 (£699 thanks for the correction SandGrounder).  You are paying for the ongoing technical development and campaign of professional sailors in one, in the other the development work is done, it's over.... for the time being anyway.

One of the design goals for the Zero was simplicity- it's something I respect, because having sailed one, I think this has been achieved without any noticeable compromise on how the boat feels to sail.

It's not a tweakers boat though, it was never intended to be, so I respect that someone with a penchant for Merlins and Solos would probably need a little more convincing than someone like me who just wants a wednesday evening chariot which requires minimal set up and intellectual bandwidth when making my buying decisions.

I'm now busy looking at the pros and cons of a boom up cover.... this is about as technical as I want really.




Edited by turnturtle - 02 Mar 15 at 12:28pm
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 15 at 12:00pm
I think what I'm trying to say Rupert and I admit i could be wrong.  Perhaps someone like Dan could confirm.  The Solo was designed to be built out of wood and as such does it not add to the complexity of a foam build?  I seem to remember my Winder being made up out of more than two moulds like the Zero.  Surely the more hours and components needed to make a boat means more time and as such more cost.  Now I'm obviously not a boat builder.  But there must be a reason it costs more to produce?
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Woodbotherer View Drop Down
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Posts: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodbotherer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 15 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Having come through the servants' entrance both days, I didn't see as much as I wanted to of the dinghy cruising part of the show in the hallway. Was it good?


No, in fact having to run that particular gauntlet of 1000 yard stare nutters and their transatlantic warefarerquests, I eventually developed a technique of having a conversation with myself on the iPhone until I got by, avoiding eye contact and wood glare at every pass. LOL


Edited by Woodbotherer - 02 Mar 15 at 12:04pm
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 15 at 12:10pm
I did say that I am full of prejudice!  To be fair to you I like the look of the D-Zero more than I like the Aero, the rig looks far more sophisticated.

Turnturtle rightly identifies that I am a tweaker, and it is the idea that there is something that I can tweak that will make up for my poor sailing that keeps me going!

Both boats appear to be skinny and of low freeboard, I guess what I would have liked to have seen were all the controls at hand from the hiking position.  I suspect that you are going to tell me that all of the "single" cleated lines can be reached from the hiking position.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 15 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

 I suspect that you are going to tell me that all of the "single" cleated lines can be reached from the hiking position.

depends where you dead end the tails.... I tie my kicker off the mainsheet with a sheet bend.

As for side cleats.... even the two that are there for the mainsheet irrationally piss me off tbh..... de-clutter works for me.  

And yes, the freeboard is low compared to a Solo.  Expect a wet arse in any breeze worth sailing in, so again, not for everyone.  
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