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    Posted: 13 Feb 15 at 7:17am
Originally posted by Eminoxon

i dont see whats so bad about dacron, lasers are dacron.

A Laser sail has a very short competitive life and the performance drop off is noticable. If you are going to compete on the open circuit you will likely go through 2 maybe 3 sails a season. 

but that is another thread completely....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 15 at 7:53am
As said the Dacron vs Laminate has been done to death and I am not qualified to comment.

BUT. Come on people keep it real. 

What I do know is citing the Laser as an example of a short lived Dacron sail is not comparing like with like. We all know that due to the requirements of making a stiff (and in my view horrible) mast bend to set the best shape ridiculously high loads are applied to the sail controls. Of course ripping the cunningham eye down past the gooseneck will result in a short life. Hopefully a mast with some level of calculated bend will be much kinder to it's sail and it's sailors.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 15 at 8:57am
I think the Laser is a very good analogy for this case in point - nearly every aspect of the concept has been modelled on a 21st Century Laser principles- even down to mirroring the 4.7, Radial and Standard rig with like for like Aero sals.

It's too early to judge the competitive life of an Aero dacron sail, and secondly without knowing the price of a replacement sail, without the associated lower mast section, it's hard to even have a stab at the running cost either.  (An additional rig is £840 - but this includes a lump of carbon tubing).

As for mylar, I'd personally expect 2-3 seasons for average club use if it's been well maintained, but some show significant longer lives with light usage- my original RS300 sail was in excellent condition despite being about 8 years old.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 15 at 9:22am
The lightweight laser sails needed to be changed for major events (regardless of what is/was claimed). They were hopeless in that regard.

Even club sailors looked at at least annual upgrades if you sailed regularly.

Dacron sails on stayed masts (Contender and lots of other two man boats) can remain competitive for a good while.

They also can on an OK - unstayed rig. So if the Aero sails and rig generally are up to the sort of technical level of an Ok rig they may be fine - if they are mass produced like the Laser there may be issues. Time will tell ?

Dacron must still be the way to go for 'holiday company' boats ?

My only point is not about the quality, lifetime, efficiency etc of the rig - its just its visual perception (to me). When I see the Aero next to the Zero I see 'quality, high tech etc' versus 'fun boat' - I totally accept that that is unfair perhaps but that just the perception.

When the Laser came out it looked modern racy and a step up from anything else around. Of course that's hard to do now with so many boats about.

Buyers of the Aero will no doubt think, and know, that the boats are great - which I'm sure they are.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 15 at 11:21am
In its day the Laser was seen and often presented as coming from the 'fun boat' end of things - in fact originally it was known as the 'Weekender' I think.  Nothing at all wrong with that in my book and the rest really is history.

The point is it transformed singlehanded sailing then .... and is still a massive influence today.  Of course 'better' ... 'faster' ... 'more technical' etc etc is possible today.  But it was then as well and has been every year and decade ever since the boat came out.

There are niche exceptions of course but as with boards it is all too easy to produce 'better' ' or 'more technical' equipment that perhaps unintentionally leads to a reduction  in general access for newbies to the sport ... and these people in time become the regular racers of tomorrow.    The Laser clearly and very intentionally went the opposite way. 

'High Tech' does not necessarily lead to 'high participation' - often the opposite.  From my perspective the Aero follows the original Laser positoning or orientation quite cleverly.   

Mike L.


Edited by blaze720 - 13 Feb 15 at 11:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Eminoxon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 15 at 10:19pm
Originally posted by turnturtle


As for mylar, I'd personally expect 2-3 seasons for average club use if it's been well maintained, but some show significant longer lives with light usage- my original RS300 sail was in excellent condition despite being about 8 years old.
thats jst it, the older mylar sails lasted longer. the new ones seem much lower quality
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 15 at 10:40pm
Quite possibly ... I haven't seen the newer one in much detail to comment on their longevity, I'm sure some of the 300 guys follow this thread- they're better placed to comment on the newer sail, it's what - 5 years old now?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 15 at 9:44am
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/181384/RS-Aero-Winter-Series-Round-5

So much is in the eye of the beholder.
 
All technicals aside, a posse of the white sails looking nicely pretty to me. 

How can you not like a fleet of any colour?




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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 15 at 11:16am
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Edited by Chris 249 - 19 Feb 15 at 11:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 15 at 11:24am
Originally posted by blaze720

In its day the Laser was seen and often presented as coming from the 'fun boat' end of things - in fact originally it was known as the 'Weekender' I think.  Nothing at all wrong with that in my book and the rest really is history.

The point is it transformed singlehanded sailing then .... and is still a massive influence today.  Of course 'better' ... 'faster' ... 'more technical' etc etc is possible today.  But it was then as well and has been every year and decade ever since the boat came out.

There are niche exceptions of course but as with boards it is all too easy to produce 'better' ' or 'more technical' equipment that perhaps unintentionally leads to a reduction  in general access for newbies to the sport ... and these people in time become the regular racers of tomorrow.    The Laser clearly and very intentionally went the opposite way. 

'High Tech' does not necessarily lead to 'high participation' - often the opposite.  From my perspective the Aero follows the original Laser positoning or orientation quite cleverly.   

Mike L.

Good post, but having had the chance to talk to or write to the guys who created it, one can also add that the beachboat theme has been over-emphasised in some ways. The original concept was that of a beachboat (or actually cottage boat) but when the hoped-for support from Coleman failed to happen, the boat was morphed from being a Sunfish replacement into being the hot-shot's second boat. It's a significant difference; it explains why the boat remained simple,and that it was developed by three very good sailors for other good sailors.
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