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    Posted: 11 Feb 15 at 10:50am
Some of the the big clubs aside I think there are loads of the smaller clubs where groups of the same guys turn up week in week out year after year and some series you edge it some you don't. 

 Call it what you will, a habit, a ritual, but I am still sailing with some of the people I was 15 years ago, all older, now greyer and probably a bit heavier and week on week I can't say which of us will be first home. Is that really that rare nowadays?
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rich96 View Drop Down
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Posts: 596 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 15 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by SimonW99

Lets start this again. What we are seeing is that catching a wave or gust that the boat next to you cannot creates a big speed differential instantly and thus a big gain - more so than in a laser. This mean boats are swapping positions more because of the enhanced responsiveness. in a group of average club sailors with similar abilities and fitness, more position changes means more 'nip and tuck' racing and its good fun.
Perhaps its easier to look at it the other way round. Same group sailing wayfarers. Once the start and first beat is dealt with, significant place swapping is only going to happen by making a tactical call or mistake - tide, overstepping mark, wind better on the other side, covering their spinnaker etc.This is because boat speed is always going to be pretty similar. Or take it to a bigger extreme folk boat racing which is almost entirely tactical as speed variance is so small.
I would expect dzero's to be seeing similar. No one is saying its some sort of miracle, but to us its noticeable and people on this thread are asking for aero owner feedback so thats all this is doing. If you want to disagree, then fine, but go try racing one and see.


This light boat = close/nip and tuck racing etc is nonsense - is that why team racing fleets are all such light boats ? No

Light boats = greater speed differentials = bigger separation
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Washy71 View Drop Down
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Posts: 56 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Washy71 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 15 at 12:29pm
Think you're flogging a dead horse here Simon. If it makes you feel any better those of us at GWSC, in the D-Zeros, are experiencing the same as you!


Edited by Washy71 - 11 Feb 15 at 12:30pm
D-Zero GBR71
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 15 at 1:02pm
Does it really matter why the racing is good?

I'm not convinced that light weight is the answer, though I'm sure it changes the dynamics. The idea that all the boats are new and all the sailors keen seems far more convincing to me.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 15 at 1:08pm
One thing that Simon might find, and this is pure supposition, is that the reduction in water line length makes a massive difference to the feel of the boat.  I can only liken it to when you change down to a shorter windsurf board- it transforms turning from barge-like to a skateboard in less than a school ruler of LWL.

Another team racing analogy, but try moving from Laser IIs to the shorter Fireflies at an event and you will notice a massive difference in the close-quarter handling... neither would be considered light boats though.

As for the Zero - one thing I've noticed is it seems to tolerate weight variation quite well and the sail is very simple to read and tune.  That could explain the phenomenon of the closer racing between the guys there- it levelled out some of the weight sensitivity to any given wind strength that may have existed prior.

Anyway, two great boats... go buy one, and then race them together if you're not lucky enough to live near Grafham or Lymington.




Edited by turnturtle - 11 Feb 15 at 1:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 15 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by rich96

Originally posted by SimonW99

Lets start this again. What we are seeing is that catching a wave or gust that the boat next to you cannot creates a big speed differential instantly and thus a big gain - more so than in a laser. This mean boats are swapping positions more because of the enhanced responsiveness. in a group of average club sailors with similar abilities and fitness, more position changes means more 'nip and tuck' racing and its good fun.
Perhaps its easier to look at it the other way round. Same group sailing wayfarers. Once the start and first beat is dealt with, significant place swapping is only going to happen by making a tactical call or mistake - tide, overstepping mark, wind better on the other side, covering their spinnaker etc.This is because boat speed is always going to be pretty similar. Or take it to a bigger extreme folk boat racing which is almost entirely tactical as speed variance is so small.
I would expect dzero's to be seeing similar. No one is saying its some sort of miracle, but to us its noticeable and people on this thread are asking for aero owner feedback so thats all this is doing. If you want to disagree, then fine, but go try racing one and see.


This light boat = close/nip and tuck racing etc is nonsense - is that why team racing fleets are all such light boats ? No

Light boats = greater speed differentials = bigger separation


Read the post, same level sailors = more nip and tuck. Doesn't mean less separation with variation of skill. Confused
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 15 at 3:05pm
Just say 'Sailing 2.0' like Martin does Simon.... far easier to not get yourself tied up in hyperbole.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 15 at 3:54pm
anyway, some more useful feedback on capsizing here:  


Good to see RS dealing with any issues head on.
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Jamesd View Drop Down
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Posts: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamesd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 15 at 4:49pm
dear god please tell me the boat doesn't come with righting lines fitted as standard!?
That and the high boom really doesn't say much for the target consumer.

Can you get a mast float as an optional extra?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 15 at 4:56pm
The righting lines are I understand only for the vertically challenged or smaller yoofs. Normal mortals can easily reach the lip and the control lines run under the gunwale if you really want a piece of string to grab. righting these things is a doddle.
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