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Rupert View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Feb 15 at 12:32pm
You mean you want to keep the RYA?

I was seeing an entirely different set up, where a sailing series was in leased boats, rig size governed by person size, hulls updated on a 4 year cycle,the rigs changed every 4 years too, but 2 years out from the rigs. The organising body would set the rules, sponsors would employ cheerleaders to sell their products, the same boats as used by the pros on the main tour would be leased to mortals at sailing centres to sail or race using your rules,wearing branded clothing, which of course they would pay a fortune for to emulate their hero's. The pressure to win would drive the pros to drug use, but somehow, no one would care.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 15 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by Chris 249



Originally posted by iGRF

 It would at least be unfair to everyone rather than the current selective unfairness driven by whatever forces currently do that in the current system plus new boats would get a fair crack of the whip.

We've had a century or so of experience to prove that you're wrong. Numerical systems are NOT unfair to everyone - they are unfair to some boats and too fair to others. And the new boats do NOT get a fair crack at the whip- some of them get an unfairly good crack and some of them get an unfairly bad crack.



OK so lets say I totally accept that, but which would you prefer, the mechanical system that just functions or what we have at the moment, where it's more to do with who you know or randomness of groups that ensure some craft get a fair handicap and others don't. I'm not seriously saying anyone is getting a back hander or anything as grubby as that, but there is a typical Brit Old Pals act going on there somewhere, I'm bloody sure of it, there are too many examples of certain types of class of boat being favoured over others plus by their own recent admission the deliberate damning of new boats straight out of the box which kills them immediately, unless the promoters of the class have shall we say certain 'connections.'

Edited by iGRF - 06 Feb 15 at 12:38pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 15 at 1:06pm
Going back to how the sport has changed, I've been researching historical Canoe events, and have found an 1890 report of a New York Canoe Club Challenge Cup* race. It reads in part
When all was ready for the start yesterday the balcony of the clubhouse was filled with spectators, among them being many ladies and several prominent canoeists. Bowyer Vaux was there and the scene reminded him of the days when with the Dot he won many victories.

And just how old was this grizzled veteran, sitting on the balcony reminiscing about his glory days? Looking at the records it seems he was about 35...

Times change!

*this trophy is still raced for by the International Canoes. Its believed to be the second oldest International competition after the Americas Cup


Edited by JimC - 09 Feb 15 at 1:08pm
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Presuming Ed View Drop Down
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Posts: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodbotherer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 15 at 9:39pm
Originally posted by Presuming Ed

http://youtu.be/5zXxXjZnWhs

That was interesting, some good stuff, a long watch and a bit of scrolling necessary, but they've reversed the decline at Grafham, I met that guy up at the Zero/Aero demo, seemed like a solid guy doing all the right stuff.
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Posts: 305 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 15 at 10:33pm
Originally posted by Chris 249

 
As to whether roto boats will change sailing for ever.... well, maybe the jury is still out about whether people are just being snobby 

I'm not sure the jury's out, after all kayakers can be plenty snobby about rotomoulded sit-on-top kayaks. However they outnumber conventional kayaks 10 to 1 on many waterways during summer - an expression of a pent up desire to get in the water in simple, accessible craft.

Rotomoulded dinghies don't seem to be around in any such numbers, which perhaps suggests there's not the same demand for sailing in the first place.
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Posts: 349 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Simon Lovesey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 15 at 6:15am
Originally posted by Woodbotherer

Originally posted by Presuming Ed

http://youtu.be/5zXxXjZnWhs

That was interesting, some good stuff, a long watch and a bit of scrolling necessary, but they've reversed the decline at Grafham, I met that guy up at the Zero/Aero demo, seemed like a solid guy doing all the right stuff.

SailRacer covered last weekend's RYA Race Officials Conference,  some interesting presentations and good ideas that seem to be working.
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gordon1277 View Drop Down
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Posts: 665 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 15 at 8:36am
Hi Disco
Have you counted the number of Toppers around most clubs, although small compared with kayaks ( different skill level required)it is still vast quantities.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 15 at 9:46am
Re ageing and dinghy sailing; whenever I go through books and mags about dinghy sailing before about 1970 I am struck by how young people where when they retired from sailing. Even people like Olympic medallists and club racers seemed to drop out in their mid 30s or so. I assume it was a revolution in medical care and the baby boomers' attitude towards ageing that made the difference - and of course the fact that the median age of the general populace has increased by about 7 years in that time. It's not just dinghy sailors that are getting older, it's everyone.

With the ageing of the population, it's arguable that the key to maintaining a viable sport is not attracting the dwindling number of yoof, but attracting more of the increasing numbers of ageing people.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 15 at 10:28am
Originally posted by DiscoBall

Originally posted by Chris 249

 
As to whether roto boats will change sailing for ever.... well, maybe the jury is still out about whether people are just being snobby 

I'm not sure the jury's out, after all kayakers can be plenty snobby about rotomoulded sit-on-top kayaks. However they outnumber conventional kayaks 10 to 1 on many waterways during summer - an expression of a pent up desire to get in the water in simple, accessible craft.

Rotomoulded dinghies don't seem to be around in any such numbers, which perhaps suggests there's not the same demand for sailing in the first place.

Interesting point about the snobbery in kayaks. It could be that the new and casual users have become so much more common than the snobs that the snobs are basically ignored? 

IMHO the underlying issue could be that sailing's too preoccupied with other things to think about satisfying a pent up desire to get in the water in simple, accessible sailing craft. I don't know the figures, but one manager from Hobie US has said on the US Hobie forum that one of the Hobie kayaks is the world's top-selling sailboat. I went in to one of our local diving/snowsports shops to get some wettie boots after doing an F18 cat regatta and there was some mutual puzzlement when I mentioned to the manager that I had been racing a Hobie - as he told me later, to the yoof these days a "Hobie" is a plastic kayak, sometimes with a sail on it.

Some of the guys credited with sparking the plastic sit on top market specifically stated that they made it big time because windsurfing got too high tech, leaving the kayaks with surplus rotomoulding equipment, salesmen, manufacturing staff and manufacturing plant. Whether that (and the success of Toppers etc) indicates that there is room for a re-thinking about sailing's attitude towards plastic sailboats is one thing, but IMHO it's arguably fair to say that most of the sport hasn't turned an open mind to the question- a lot of the press and officials seem to be stuck in the ageing mindset that high performance is the only way forward.


Edited by Chris 249 - 10 Feb 15 at 10:30am
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