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turnturtle View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Feb 15 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by Washy71



Another film quote perhaps? This time from Spiderman "with great power comes great responsibility!"

you have a good memory, all I can think of about that film was Kirsten Dunst's cold weather detectors....
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Posts: 56 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Washy71 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 15 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by iGRF

That big pole thing that sticks out the front isn't that what you use to spear Lasers if they get in the way?

I honestly don't understand what's being said here.

They're in the way Mr Data - Ramming Speed - Make it so - engage.


Haha, given I was in a Laser and was lucky not to get speared by said pole because the guy behind it couldn't see where he was going and hadn't cleared his downwind route before dropping the hammer, I think that's a bit of a daft remark! I was very close to experiencing serious pain or worse.

Another film quote perhaps? This time from Spiderman "with great power comes great responsibility!"

Edited by Washy71 - 05 Feb 15 at 12:59pm
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 15 at 11:49am
Originally posted by Rupert

So, I guess in these situations, you know the score when you sign on. It isn't really that one or the other boat can or should behave differently in the race (beyond sensible tactics) but whether mixing radically different boats on the race course is satisfactory in the 1st place. They muck each other up, and the handicap results are pretty random.

and in truth, I can't in all honesty tell you whether we were actually racing each other or not.... I'd say we probably were, but mentally weren't.  The Laser fleet certainly viewed their results in isolation - like a good few clubs would on a social evening series I'd imagine.  

Back then my main competition was RS300s, Albacores (forget the spreadsheet), a Phantom and a couple of other 100s....  I also took note of any other Assymetric results as we extracted those.  I think there were a couple of Vagos or something, plus a 200.

So really it just goes to support the 'anti-proliferation' arguments.... had I sailed a Phantom or 300, (or a D-Aero), then the proper course deviation wouldn't have been required, but the boat speeds sufficiently different that such encounters would have been handled with less irritation on all sides.  


Edited by turnturtle - 05 Feb 15 at 11:51am
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 15 at 11:42am
That big pole thing that sticks out the front isn't that what you use to spear Lasers if they get in the way?

I honestly don't understand what's being said here.

They're in the way Mr Data - Ramming Speed - Make it so - engage.
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 15 at 11:30am
So, I guess in these situations, you know the score when you sign on. It isn't really that one or the other boat can or should behave differently in the race (beyond sensible tactics) but whether mixing radically different boats on the race course is satisfactory in the 1st place. They muck each other up, and the handicap results are pretty random.
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 15 at 11:15am
Again, in the situation I faced there was plenty of communication as I headed up.... I wouldn't risk the shiny sides off a new RS100 on a beaten up old Laser just to prove some petty point.  

Much as I agree with the rules in a racing scenario, and in this situation didn't yield half the leg to wait for the lasers behind me to go past before hoisting, nor would I again; I also acknowledge the social implications of this scenario- that being you are essentially taking out someone else's race purely because they could / should have anticipated the 'significantly off the rhumline' requirements of the boat I chose to sail that night.

I wouldn't say either myself, or the frustrated fellow in the Laser who had his Wednesday night ruined, were acting like pillocks.... it just brought home that racing asymmetrics on little puddles in mixed fleets doesn't always make for harmonious relations.  The situation certainly added nothing for either of us.

Given the boat in general wasn't really suited for a small puddle (AIUI - none there now anyway) - I put this one down to 'wrong boat in the wrong location'- on me, not him.  So I do very much sympathise with Paramedic on this.

edit for context- we're talking sub 5 knot drifters, from barely enough to fill a kite to barely enough to be planing, outside of the odd lucky timing on the gusts.  

 


Edited by turnturtle - 05 Feb 15 at 11:19am
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 15 at 11:13am
Surely this comes back to how ambiguous the room and opportunity rule really is.  I would say 10 seconds after a bear away is plenty of opportunity to establish what you are racing against?  perhaps i am miss understanding the situation here, but if an assy boat bears off slows down to hoist his kite the heads up to sail his proper course what has he done wrong?  It seems to me that if you are coming to overtake him, then he has a right to protect his position, if he is overtaking you, well he is moving faster and will almost certainly be a dot on the horizon shortly anyway.  In all the assy boats I have sailed over the years if a Laser had tried to roll me i would of been long off into the distance once the kite was pulling.
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 15 at 11:00am
Originally posted by chris_wht


Originally posted by Paramedic

 
No, it's called being a pillock.
no, being a pillock is getting yourself in a situation where your stuck on the outside of boat(s) at the windward mark, and thinking that your race is so much more important than theirs that they should stop and wait for you to go around them and sort yourself out. and anyway, who takes you miles off your course, you could always stop and wait for them to pop out from underneath you


You don't get it do you?

The choice is often go high and over or hit them. You cannot sail that erratically and expect to get away with it nature of the beast or not. The windward boat is entitled to room and opportunity and is NOT as I understand the rules required to anticipate a 60 degree course change 10 seconds after a big bear away
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 15 at 4:32am
Originally posted by Neptune

Thing is in my experience most asymmetric boats look out for each other as they realize the other guy can't always see them.  It's the responsibility of both boats ultimately to try and avoid collisions
 
I'm a bit late with this, but I think you'll find that the responsiblity to maintain a proper lookout vastly outweighs the responsibility to avoid collisions, especially since many assymetrics weave around so much that the slower boat has little chance to work out where the assy is going, and the fact that some assy sailors try to weave around slow boats means that the slow boat may not know whether to change course or not until it's too late.
 
If push came to shove in the courts, it would probably be held that if a sail destroys a boat's ability to maintain a proper lookout then that sail shouldn't be hoisted, or the boat should have sailed a course that ensured that there was no one in the blind spot.
 
 
 
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Posts: 50 		Post Options Post Options   Quote chris_wht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 10:38pm
either way, the little 505 video on the front page report looks great fun!

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