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Demographic Changes

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    Posted: 03 Feb 15 at 11:47pm
Well I sailed the Alto lots over a roughly 12 month period, and I class it as one of the best boats I've ever used. It's not perfect (what is?)but it gave me some of the most satisfying sailing of my life.
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Null View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 7:40am
Originally posted by Dougaldog

"How can you foresee what will happen in the future without an understanding of what has occurred in the past?"

Right now, the single handed themed article that gets my attention the most would be the one that looks at boats such as the OK, Supernova and Solo (sorry, all old fart boats again) and take some time thinking about how these well established stalwarts of the genre are going to handle the competition from two excellent newcomers. Anything more forward looking at that is nothing more than fiction, suggest that Oldtimer tries the works of JK Rowling for that!
D

Therein lies a problem Dougal, unless the media support new classes the solo, supernova, ok have no new competition.  So more articles about classes which have deep roots and the ability to reach sailing clubs around the country theoretically strengthen their position.  Like I said earlier, there is no vehicle for new classes outside of rs to promote themselves.

I agree with you about boat testing, but to make it fair there needs to be a panel of testers from different demographic groups using the boats over a few months.   Not 45minutes sailing in champaign conditions by the soon to be class manager.   Wink  There is simply a huge raft of material just waiting to be written as a class guide/long term boat test.   Sadly I fear one honest write up in this somewhat backward industry would limit the ability to long term test boats from the same manufacturer in the future.


So how does this relate to changes in sailing demographics.  Well how can people communicate to women sailors currently? How do we relay that the number of female sailors or double handed boats are in decline?  How do we incentivise people to come back?  When in current form we don't have that communication vehicle.  I am 99.9% sure I am the only person that's read your articles or even heard of you at my sailing club and 100% sure I am the only one that knows you are writing a new merlin book.   Which is awful shame, but actually a symptom of people not knowing where to look.  This is simply not right, clubs need your articles to help promote change.  The grass routes are where the real power lies, sowing seeds of doubt and making small changes which grow into larger changes across the sailing club networks.  Sadly unless someone landed on the Y&Y landing page at exactly the 10hr window it was in the headlines it is lost in time for them forever....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Simon Lovesey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 8:10am
The media discussion is important,  there are 109 International Classes and numerous others,  so massive fragmentation -  for the outside world very confusing,  which of the 109 potential world championships should you follow ?

As suggested by others,  there could be benefit in forming similar clusters of different classes,  would allow focus of effort and economises of scale.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote boatshed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 8:36am
Originally posted by TwoCrew

"So, if an ultralight wash through double hander that two girls could actually lift, was easy to handle, performed well, and didn't cost an arm and a leg came on the market you think nobody would be interested? "

For sure they would...but while it's not ultra light, and not very quick, isn't an RS200 more or less exactly what these two girls would want?

I'm pretty new to this sport, but given the almost bewildering choice of weapon available it does seem to me that you need to have a very 'glass half empty' outlook not to be able to find something you really like from what's already available.


Good post!   The supply of perfectly good designs outstrips demand.

And JimC tells us there was even more choice back in the old days and looking at some old books on sailing, this looks to be right.  So, make of that what you will.


Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 8:54am
Well i disagree with 'Is that not almost a' approach.  Especially with OD's.  People think that these classes develop very slowly if at all, but in theory they develop much like the development classes but in a different way.  New classes are launched and challenge their market space, if they are successful largely the old class (should in theory) decline.  The fact is that many new designs have not been good enough or have not met the brief to replace some of the legacy OD classes....(Well in theory thats how it should work in my warped mind).  Now I am sure there are instances where better boats have failed, perhaps they hav their price point wrong, or have now marketed effectively.  Again this reflects back on the lack of proper media in the dinghy arena
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 9:06am
Originally posted by Null

unless the media support new classes


Why should it be the business of the media to support new classes? The job of the media is to sell media and advertising, make a living for their staff and some money for their owners, and goodness knows that's hard enough in these days.

Seems to me even on this forum for every person getting excited about the wonderful new whatsit there's another person bemoaning fragmentation of classes or proclaiming that that the only proper form of sailing is some antique or whatever. If you want to keep a job in sailing media you probably need to provide a sensible balance and provide some appeal to everyone.

D Zero, D one seem to have managed a certain amount of traction without being from RS, and if I'm the only person from my club who reads YY or posts on this forum somehow the new boats seem to have reached the consciousness of sailors in general just as effectively as new boats seemed to 20 years ago.

Seems to me its far easier for a new boat to get noticed than it ever was, and if people show no enthusiasm for something, well maybe that's its fate. Maybe it just wasn't good enough, or didn't appeal to enough people. I've seen a few boats aimed at what, from my distance, appears to be a market segment about the size of a wrinkled pea, or solving a problem that to my mind doesn't really exist.

One thing I've observed in umpteen "what boat shall I get" threads is that often folks looking at new boats don't restrict themselves to a small segment of the market at all, but will be making choices between what seem to me to be wildly disparate craft.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote timeintheboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 9:19am
Well at least these days media includes social media - which includes things like this forum (c.f. RS100) - for the promotion of classes and to create an interest. So it can also be a do-it-yourself promotion.
 
The boat manufacturers themselves (RS excepted) do seem to have a generally poor (all) media presence (you only have to look at their websites), leaving it to the amatuer run CA's and fanboys to slug it out.   
Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 9:26am
Originally posted by Peaky

I do Graeme. i think there is a gap size wise between the 200 and 400, but ultralight and modern. There seem to be plenty of men too big for the 200 and women too small for the 400. And if you want a modest 'club' asymmetric surely someone wants an alternative to RS?

I'm not sure there is that much of a size gap between the two. If the gap was any less they'd compete against each other. 

The 2014 nationals had 91 women out of 238 competitors and only one boat in the top ten that didn't have a lady crew. 

The women in the fleet add massively to the popularity of the class. To put it bluntly, if you're 16-25 and male, you can sail a super cool fast boat, but you're not going to meet many girls in those classes. For the girls, you can go and sail a faster boat, but chances are you'll be a noncompetitive weight and out muscled by the men, you'll also be one of the only girls; which makes it look like a manly sport, and not many 16-25 year old girls want to look manly

Also, the comments about asymmetric miss the point. The 200 is a slow asymetric, and no doubt there are times when you just run the boat as low as possible, but the increase in gybing angles and decision when to heat up to plane (around 15 knots) makes for the best championship racing we have in the UK. 

On a windward leeward course having an asymetric kite suddenly opens massive tactical and strategical opportunities, whereas in symmetric or no kites you're best option is to point roughly at the mark and focus on eeking out marginal gains from rig set up and body kinetics. 

Unfortunately, many clubs set round the cans racing, which totally negates this massive plus point.

You won't see many RS200 turning up en-mass to a winter handicap series though. The courses don't suit the boat, than handicap system is 'just for laughs', the weather is terrible, and most have good access to class racing at home or nearby clubs.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 9:30am
Null,

Jim C was spot on, when he talked about there being a lot more in the way of fragmentation through the arrival of new classes back in the 'golden era'. Yet, out of all these boats, few made it through, the attrition rate suggested a very harsh environment. In addition to the Darwian 'survival of the fittest' there were clearly other factors at work, as there were some really exciting and innovative boats that flourished briefly, then vanished from view.

There is a danger in trying to 'over-write' the story of any boat, new or old, without a clear picture of what that boat is all about. This needs far more than just a boat test or two, but a wide ranging observation, over a period of time, as to what the boat is doing, for whom - and why. A good example of how NOT to do this would be the early writing about the Blaze. The first generation of this boat provided anything BUT an enjoyable sailing experience, despite what the writing of the day suggested. Then the 'Blaze X' came along with a 'chalk and cheese' change in the overall experience - the boat was enjoyable to sail and offered - and still offers, a huge amount of fun. Add the Halo rig on and the boat is a real crackerjack.

There is a really good piece of advice, "be careful what you wish for". Wanting media focus 'now' can only provide the thinnest of stories, for the simple reason that none of the new boats have yet shown that they can create and then successfully occupy a niche. You've not even had a Nationals yet, so what is there for a journalist to write about. Now, as it looks as though I'm the PRO for your Nationals in May, I'll have a grandstand view of how the class is developing. But with yet more new classes expected to be hitting the water soon, what I will write is still a long way from being clear. But I can assure you of this - I will be writing about these boats when there is something to say!

D
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 10:16am
Originally posted by Null

Originally posted by Dougaldog

"How can you foresee what will happen in the future without an understanding of what has occurred in the past?"

Right now, the single handed themed article that gets my attention the most would be the one that looks at boats such as the OK, Supernova and Solo (sorry, all old fart boats again) and take some time thinking about how these well established stalwarts of the genre are going to handle the competition from two excellent newcomers. Anything more forward looking at that is nothing more than fiction, suggest that Oldtimer tries the works of JK Rowling for that!
D

Therein lies a problem Dougal, unless the media support new classes the solo, supernova, ok have no new competition.  

Exactly; the media if full of journalists forecasting and pontificating about the future. It makes some of the most interesting reading. Of course you need some balls to have a go at it as quite often history will end up proving you wrong but then that is the very nature of looking forwards as no-one really knows what will happen.

The past is of limited interest; only the other day I saw some guy having a royal whine about how only 55 people had ordered copies of his historical Merlin Rocket book ...
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