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Null View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Demographic Changes
    Posted: 03 Feb 15 at 5:19pm
Not sure the delivery of £5k advertising revenue a month is viable, given that if I were to do it for a job i would want most of it for wages!  Also ashamed to say as a MTb rider i have never heard of IMB
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 15 at 6:38pm
Originally posted by Null

 Also ashamed to say as a MTb rider i have never heard of IMB


You wear SPD's and lycra, no self respecting MTB rider should even talk to you, Here, don't mention I sent you he's a mate and he doesn't speak to SPD riding gheyers either
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Null View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 15 at 6:42pm
Only on my road bike!

Full Troy Lee, Fox, AM45's and Royal racing kit on my MTB.

Just ordered my new bike as well 160mm travel front and rear, Pikes,  SRAM X11, Reverb stealth 650b flying machine!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 15 at 6:57pm
Thought you were off rear Sus?
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 15 at 7:12pm
There but for fortune goes a 29er fixie rider.

Fortune being us keeping his Onanist arse on the straight and narrow.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 15 at 7:21pm
Are you suggesting he had withdrawal symptoms?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 15 at 7:45pm
"How can you foresee what will happen in the future without an understanding of what has occurred in the past?"

Thanks Rupert for making that clear to Oldtimer though I fear that the common sense nature of your thoughts may be beyond him! There are two key issues here! Writing about what might happen in the future is a lot of fun, but journalism it isn't - it is being opinionated and there is more than enough of that on here already!

More than that, if I thought that like Deep Thought, that I had the answers, I'd be working for one of the big consultancy companies that the RYA seem happy to pay vast sums of money to. Instead, it is actually far harder to look at what is happening today, then be able to pick the raisins out of the ratsh*t and make some sense out of some of the madness that is going on out there. Mind you, if I was in a position to set the agenda, the first thing I would do would be to organise a real boat test for ALL of the current crop of single handers: what would be important to me would be to look at what the 'ownership experience' is like. Everything from getting the cover off in the dinghy park, to getting it back on after a day of launching, sailing, recovering.... that to me is what a test should be about, the boat, warts and all. But hang on, what is all this about 'futuristic boats'? Is that what the D-Zero and RS Aero really are. Null, nail hit on head! When you've got your success that says that the boat has the legs to last (you want futuristic - to me the RS 600 ticked more of the boxes there...and look at that now) I'll be beating a path to the class to find out the how - and "what we all want to know" why you succeeded when others may have failed.

Right now, the single handed themed article that gets my attention the most would be the one that looks at boats such as the OK, Supernova and Solo (sorry, all old fart boats again) and take some time thinking about how these well established stalwarts of the genre are going to handle the competition from two excellent newcomers. Anything more forward looking at that is nothing more than fiction, suggest that Oldtimer tries the works of JK Rowling for that!
D
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 15 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by Old Timer


D

Look - I'm an old fart; but at least I know it.

Your response illustrates my point perfectly; if your articles just seek to re-pot what has already happened then that will be a yawn; what the sailing media needs is a journalist that can take a view of the future and write about it. The past is nostalgia; the future is where it is at ... many old farts struggle to get that.

With boats like the Zero & Aero you could think we may be at a turning point and an insightful vision of where that may take us would be a great read.

When you look for a new title; you revert to the Fireball ... what about writing something about some of the more futuristic classes?
[/QUOTE]

There's some 'oldfartism' showing in your own post, from some points of view. In particular, the (apparent) belief that we should mainly write about is new classes is an ancient one. So too is the belief that we don't need to analyse where we are and where we have been in order to work out where to go.

IMHO the simplistic view and slogans like "the past is nostalgia, the future is where it's at" is largely responsible for the decline in sailing and in sailing media. In contrast, the solid, evidence-based analysis of trends in the sport that a very small band (Jim C, DD and I among them) is doing is actually very new in dinghy sailing..... EDIT - not entirely new, when I was in nappies or unborn people like Richard Creagh-Osbourne and Beecher Moore were analysing trends and learning from them, and in those days the dinghy scene was booming.

And why not write about the Fireball when it represents such a popular sporting ruleset or discipline? Should a cycling magazine not write about MTBs because they are not much newer than 'balls? Should a golf magazine ignore golf clubs because their ruleset and basic design are older than the ruleset and basic design of 'balls?  Whenever I walk into a newsagent I see many magazines from other interest groups that are arguably much MORE obsessed about the past than even Classic Boat!  Arguably, the continuing strength and renewal of older classes is one of the most important and revealing trends in our sport, so why ignore it?

And one can also ask where the "write about new stuff" mindset gets us. As others have pointed out, 20 years ago many people were falling over themselves to write uncritically about how skiff types would take over, and look what happened there. About 30 years ago many windsurfer journos were writing about the way that "funboarding" (high performance windsurfing in high winds) would take the sport to a new height, and look what happened there. About five year ago even Andy Rice (one of the best sailing writers around IMHO) was saying that that foiling was the future of dinghy sailing. We've now reached the future he looked at, and the reality is that boats like the Solo and Laser are still vastly more popular than foilers, and it seems that more Aeros have been sold in a few months than foilers in a decade. 

If journos just looked at cool new classes they'd be presenting the wrong view of the sport and its future, so why do it? And while it's patting myself on the back to do this, I can say that when I look back at what I wrote in windsurfing mags in the '80s (when I and some writer in Boards mag expressed concern about the 'funboard craze' which many people now agree almost killed the sport) it's apparent that you CAN have a fairly accurate view of where a sport should and should not go, as long as you remain very realistic about trends - but such realism is not founded on a view like "we should just write about new stuff".







Edited by Chris 249 - 03 Feb 15 at 8:31pm
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 15 at 8:19pm
In order to establish why old classes like Merlin & the Fireball are still going strong you have to examine why more recent offerings are not getting traction.

Imv other than the obvious 'Bandit' take, it is because of the failure of the Bethwaite generation in the 90's and noughties and the harsh climate into which the more modern offerings were launched, combined with the stifle at birth attitude of those who can sway the PY system to protect those classes.

Classic example being the way P&B conned poor old Mike Arnold and killed his Alto rather than let it interfere with their beloved 505, then look at the intercenine politicking surrounding the Icon, one guy gets worked over for commercial expedience by another, I'm sure there are plenty of other examples, but that is typical of them.

Petty politics and bollox aside, unless a body or group came together to decide a particular type of boat is required and an open to all interested parties of builders and sail makers invited to join in, I can't see anything getting any serious market share in the double hander world and the chances of that happening?

Edited by iGRF - 03 Feb 15 at 8:26pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 15 at 8:54pm
Could it be that with the doublehanded market shrinking, there simply isn't any desire for new classes? The Aero and Zero (and D1?) on the other hand are tapping into a market which appears to be moderately healthy and looking for new toys.
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