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Demographic Changes

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JimC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by Rupert

You could say that if the job is too small to warrant 3 quotes, why isn't it being done by a volunteer anyway?


First catch your hare... Finding the volunteer might take even longer than getting the three quotes!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 4:41pm
Ref. In house or out sourced catering ... this is the graveyard for many Flag Officers.  Obviously depends upon the nature of the club.  I was brought up sailing on a small lake with a wooden shed of a clubhouse and the catering was done by the ladies of the club ... cups of tea and bacon butties, sadly I can see the pit falls of this approach in a modern age, but back then the rescue boat for school sailing was a rowing boat!

If anyone is considering the in house vs. out sourced catering decision, unless you have great experience in the catering trade, procede with caution, in house is great if you have a really good cook on board, but you run the possibility of losing a lot of money (in club terms) if you don't keep a very tight grip.

The potential problem with out sourcing is that there may not be enough business for the franchisee to think it worthwhile, so they tend to get dispirited and do a runner, usually at the moment they reach the VAT threshold.

If anyone wants to discuss please PM me ... or lets start a Flag Officer's section on the Forum to compare notes.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 4:53pm
We tried outsourcing the galley once, didn't last long. Shame cos the food improved. However members do it now, bacon butties and hot dogs, maybe the odd jacket potato. Even at chew valley the franchise is on and off a bit and that's a big club. The problems come when it starts to get shaky and the people bring their own food. Downhill from there.

We don't have a bar either. That's cos the clubs in the countryside and no one drinks and drives anymore. Again we tried once but the hassle with the licence and the lack of drinking meant it wasn't worth it. If your club it's in a town like most sea clubs I can see the point.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

Ref. In house or out sourced catering ... this is the graveyard for many Flag Officers.  Obviously depends upon the nature of the club.  I was brought up sailing on a small lake with a wooden shed of a clubhouse and the catering was done by the ladies of the club ... cups of tea and bacon butties, sadly I can see the pit falls of this approach in a modern age, but back then the rescue boat for school sailing was a rowing boat!

If anyone is considering the in house vs. out sourced catering decision, unless you have great experience in the catering trade, procede with caution, in house is great if you have a really good cook on board, but you run the possibility of losing a lot of money (in club terms) if you don't keep a very tight grip.

The potential problem with out sourcing is that there may not be enough business for the franchisee to think it worthwhile, so they tend to get dispirited and do a runner, usually at the moment they reach the VAT threshold.

If anyone wants to discuss please PM me ... or lets start a Flag Officer's section on the Forum to compare notes.

great points - I think one of the reasons they can get dispirited with a sailing club gig is the volatile nature of supply and demand.  A cold winter weekend with 10 punters one week, then a complete sell out due to an open meeting the next.  

Secondly, they are not going to take to kindly to sharing the profit with the Sailing Club- as members are too stingey to pay the true cost of membership through the fees alone, so each and every activity needs to become income generating, rather than service provisioning with just cost of overhead as a minimum.

Personally I think catering vans / street food are way forward for a lot of small-medium sized sailing clubs - as is encouraging active footfall from passers-by, who may one day want to come and have a go at messing around in those boats....    

If your club really is that small that it can't sustain a scran-waggon, then I guess you really are just self catering in a communal area between friends and therefore probably shouldn't be 'charging' for the food at all.  


Edited by turnturtle - 02 Feb 15 at 4:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by JimC

what it appears you don't understand.

You are quite right, I bow to your better insight into clauses and exceptions of the Public Liability Insurance of another forum member's club....  

There is no legislation for formal 3rd party training for food handlers, however under EU Law, training for all food handlers is required, even if this training is considered 'on-the-job'.   As a matter of standard practice, most bars and cafes will use the C&G systems for arse covering exercises.  However A person responsible for the training should be sufficiently trained in HACCP under statutory legislation, and if that person does not exist, maybe a rear commodore in SC terms, I'm afraid it passes up the chain to someone in authority- the company director seems the likely candidate.  

I wouldn't want to test a defence on food posioning, especially around children, based on 'But Mavis was a volunteer' and 'I only took the commodore gig for the car space'.... not in today's H&S conscious world.  

so instead you've behaved like a petty little hitler  and   spread  the kind of rumours that NWNF  compensayshun types and those with an interest in limiting  volunteer  / not for profit organisations  like to spread 

needless to say if you can run  services which are CQC regualted with Volunteers  running  the hospitality side of a Sailing  club  is not beyond the  ability of most people likely to put themselves forward for a Flag  role , especially if you employ a trained cook  - and avoiding employing  cook or cleaner  won;t  protect the organisation from H+S legislation , it's a workplace the moment a  tradesman is contracted for anything ...  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Agree that sounds wrong, and that 3 quotes, especially when club members are involved, keeps everything above board - as does ensuring that it actually goes through the books.

exactly ,  usually  if  work wants to be put in the direction of a known / friendly tradesperson  it can be done so in a manner which is above board,  value  or  timeframes are typical ones
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by Woodbotherer

Who runs the galley at your club then tick? I'm embarrassed to say that even though I'm trying to have them replaced by a machine, our tea is almost 100% dispensed by wimmen, Saint Mary and Sharon (she's not been there long enough to be fully canonised)run the Galley rota amongst the sailing widows, occasionally guys to get involved, the re constructed ones, but we don't have that many of them. 

Simple. Each Sunday we appoint three officers. Officer of the Day, Assistant Officer and Patrol boat. Although Assistant sounds posh in reality he or she makes tea and serves cake, we all do it from the hairy arsed to the hairy headed. Open races when meals are required are usually serviced by wifes helped out by spare members. I have been known to knock up a trifle.

I am the only employee of the club and I clean once a week for a pittance but because I am paid I do it, no excuse!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by zippyRN

Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by JimC

what it appears you don't understand.

You are quite right, I bow to your better insight into clauses and exceptions of the Public Liability Insurance of another forum member's club....  

There is no legislation for formal 3rd party training for food handlers, however under EU Law, training for all food handlers is required, even if this training is considered 'on-the-job'.   As a matter of standard practice, most bars and cafes will use the C&G systems for arse covering exercises.  However A person responsible for the training should be sufficiently trained in HACCP under statutory legislation, and if that person does not exist, maybe a rear commodore in SC terms, I'm afraid it passes up the chain to someone in authority- the company director seems the likely candidate.  

I wouldn't want to test a defence on food posioning, especially around children, based on 'But Mavis was a volunteer' and 'I only took the commodore gig for the car space'.... not in today's H&S conscious world.  

so instead you've behaved like a petty little hitler  and   spread  the kind of rumours that NWNF  compensayshun types and those with an interest in limiting  volunteer  / not for profit organisations  like to spread 

needless to say if you can run  services which are CQC regualted with Volunteers  running  the hospitality side of a Sailing  club  is not beyond the  ability of most people likely to put themselves forward for a Flag  role , especially if you employ a trained cook  - and avoiding employing  cook or cleaner  won;t  protect the organisation from H+S legislation , it's a workplace the moment a  tradesman is contracted for anything ...  

so you're advocating employing a trained cook?  Therefore you are employing someone, who through industry experience alone, is qualified to handle food in safe and compliant manner.

I hope your sailing club can afford it on those quieter days though and they'd better be good at managing their inventory .... not that any of this seems to fit quite so hand in glove with the volunteer ethos of your first paragraph mind.   


Edited by turnturtle - 02 Feb 15 at 5:39pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

as members are too stingey to pay the true cost of membership through the fees alone,

Isn't it a b**tard that sailing club members aren't as affluent as your horse riding mates. Perhaps you'd like all us plebs out of the sport?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by turnturtle

as members are too stingey to pay the true cost of membership through the fees alone,

Isn't it a b**tard that sailing club members aren't as affluent as your horse riding mates. Perhaps you'd like all us plebs out of the sport?

what a load of tosh- c'mon Jim, you can do better than that reverse snobbery clap trap.

The flip side is isn't a b**tard that non-galley eating members are subsidising sailing club canteens up and down the country.  After all, I bet a good few of them are loss-makers a good few days of the year.... and don't get me started on food wastage.  It's not like the leftovers can go to pigswill anymore.  

My point is very simple- the flag officer responsible could do far worse than offering up his or her car park space to a scran waggon for those members who want hot food on site.  It seems a far simpler solution that those that want it, pay for it directly, rather than it either being a resourcing issue, management problem, revenue drain or even an income stream for the main activities of the club - to provide sailing, not sausages.    

When it comes to your annual dinner or an open meeting supper etc, then frankly there are plenty outside catering firms more than capable of delivering quality product to an acceptable budget.... 


Edited by turnturtle - 02 Feb 15 at 6:10pm
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