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Demographic Changes

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Simon Lovesey View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by winging it

This thing about not having a crew/helm to sail with.....  We had a meeting of club instructors last week and we reckon for everyone wishing in the club wishing they had a crew there is also someone wishing they had a helm.  We have three Sport England funded Vagod sitting in our boat park, and though they are well used for training and by various groups during the week, they dont see much race action.  We're now starting an initiative to try and change that by creating a season ticket boat hire system, cutting the hire fee generally, creating a pool of potential sailors who can be paired up, and possibly running a mini Vago league wher ethe people get the points as individuals not as boats/pairs.  We also have someone happy to take ownership of this and stand in as crew or helm if someone wants to sail and doesnt have a partner.

From what I hear Hunts are doing some great things,  they justifiably won the GJW Direct Venue of Year (inland) last year for Championship Hosts and by all accounts implementing some great innovations at grass roots level.  Shows what can be done when there is a will and some forward thinking  people.    


Edited by Simon Lovesey - 02 Feb 15 at 1:23pm
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ChrisI View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 2:32pm
"At the moment my main beef is that most of us do things f.o.c for the club but there has been a fairly recent culture by the previous administration some of who are still present, of paying certain club members to do things. We recently had a garage door replaced it's just an up and over thing, but the offenders charged £300 to fit it whilst others just do things for the good of the club and it winds me up tighter than a watch spring, particularly since the weekend before the door expenditure I'd worked from 6 til midnight on bar duty for ef all and earned about 300 quid..."

I agree - I think this is the one thing in a club that people should really be beware of - can sow all sorts of division. Especially when people get paid to do the same thing as others do for free.... it makes them look like fools. And then the added complication of people thinking those who get paid only want to do more of it because they get paid more....but altogether another string I think...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 2:36pm
the economic gearing's all wrong.... why have a bar in the first place?

If it's all voluntary this and sweat equity that to save all this money, why don't the folks who want to drink just bring along their own booze?  

 If they use a glass, wash it up.... quite simple really.


Edited by turnturtle - 02 Feb 15 at 2:37pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 2:41pm
In 2 minds on the payment thing - we do it when it is jobs that involve machinary and specialist knowledge, and so far, no real problems.

Agree with TT on the bar thing - we simply have cans and bottles behind the kitchen counter, and put a bar up sometimes for events. Or bring your own booze.
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Woodbotherer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodbotherer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Woodbotherer

of paying certain club members to do things.

Sounds like a tricky area... If you're going to have to pay people to do stuff anyway then paying club members, especially if its at 'mates rates', does seem like a good idea, especially if they have liability insurance and the like for tasks where that would be valuable. Keeps it in the family and all that. But on the other hand if some people get paid and some don't then that's potentially divisive as you highlight.

But the other side of the coin is that I reckon I've seen good natured working people exploited by clubs full of people who earn far more than they do, but don't happen to do something that would be useful for the club.

I really don't think there are easy answers.

Wel I wouldn't call 150 quid for a mornings door hanging mates rates..and I wasn't really consulted about it, the head of the house committee just did it.

So next committee meeting there's going to be a bit of a row, then I think it'll be we want three quotes for everything and if members want to quote all we'll and good, the other problem they're paying cash which is hooky and all my business life I've been (stupidly) straight with the tax man it never does to cross them, but paying cash in hand like this makes us very liable. Meanwhile another member is fitting a complicated tagged door entry system for nothing and not so long ago we had an entire party rebuilding a slip, again nobody got paid, this basically one guy is undermining everything the rest of us stand for, trouble is, he's been on the committee forever and he's a mate so it's going to be tricky, personally I just want to go f**k it and walk away, let them get on with it, rather than be 'that person' who stands there and says 'no, it aint fair,' which is what I'm doing at the moment.

Clubs and committees who'd be on them.. Confused
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 3:08pm
Agree that sounds wrong, and that 3 quotes, especially when club members are involved, keeps everything above board - as does ensuring that it actually goes through the books.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by Woodbotherer

but paying cash in hand like this makes us very liable. 

not if you were incorporated it wouldn't.... it's totally their issue to decide what income they declare or otherwise.  Just be straight up on your books about what was paid out and keep a record of the receipt.  

If they want to create fraudulent alternative paper trails for their declarations, then more fool them, but you are neither liable nor complicit in the fraud when trading as a limited company with cash suppliers.


Edited by turnturtle - 02 Feb 15 at 3:24pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by Woodbotherer

I wouldn't call 150 quid for a mornings door hanging mates rates..

Doesn't really sound like full commercial rate either though does it?

While I understand your concern, having experienced the hassle of trying to find firms to actually quote for little jobs, are you at risk of making the head of house committee's job more stressful and troublesome with the result that they say "**** that" and give up? Volunteers for that particular gig are not easily found IME.

To ask old Bill to do the job for cash takes 5 minutes, and as long as all the names are in the club accounts I think its still legal, we just need to be sure Bill gives a receipt and is aware that his name is in the books if the IR run a check, so he keeps all legit his end. To find three firms to tender for the job, read the tenders, answer all the questions, well, you'd be very lucky if it only took 5 hours. I think I'd be very wary about asking volunteers to do that much extra non productive work.

Of course when it comes to serious size contracts that's another matter entirely.

Edited by JimC - 02 Feb 15 at 3:33pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 3:33pm
You could say that if the job is too small to warrant 3 quotes, why isn't it being done by a volunteer anyway?
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Woodbotherer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodbotherer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Woodbotherer

I wouldn't call 150 quid for a mornings door hanging mates rates..

Doesn't really sound like full commercial rate either though does it?


I dunno 300 quid a day? This is handyman territory. £8- £10 per hour round here, even at £20 per hour it's only 80 quid, that represents nearly forty quid an hour.. Even brickies aren't on that.
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