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Simon Lovesey View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 Feb 15 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by sargesail

And that decline begins at at about the time of the rise in fuel costs in particular, and everything in general.  Could the recent reductions slow the decline?

Not if we're all doom and gloom anyway!

The recession and credit crunch have a lot to answer for.

IMHO sailing could be in a great position,  healthy lifestyle and green credentials etc, to benefit from the so called up turn the Govt keep claiming.  
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JimC View Drop Down
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Currently sitting in a club AGM, hearing that membership is up and activity on the water is up...
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winging it View Drop Down
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 15 at 7:43pm
I was the only female on a Coach Assessor course of ten, There are only five female CAs in Eastern region, out of say 25 - 30.  I'm about to run a Dinghy Instructor course, six participants, one female.  At my instructors' meeting last week, 21 instructors, four females including me.  No role models.

The latest Sport England initiative, This Girl Can, is aimed at getting more women in to sport generally, it's not an issue unique to sailing, not by a long way.

For my part, I'm attempting to kill two birds with one stone by applying for a grant for three junior double handers in the hope that we can encourage more girls into the sport by way of the fact that double handed sailing is more sociable.  We'll see.

Oh, and when I was on my CA course I was setting up my Rib when some young lad jumped into the boat, did it for me, unasked, then instructed me on how to leave the dock.  Make of that what you will.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 7:09am
Chivalry ain't dead?
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 9:39am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Chivalry ain't dead?

No but the young lad might be  Wink
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Woodbotherer View Drop Down
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Posts: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodbotherer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 9:55am
Hair is the problem, the more of it you have the less you want to get it messed up by sailing...

Upper head hair that is.

Lower facial hair the more of it you have the faster you are.

Beards make champions. Wink
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Simon Lovesey View Drop Down
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Posts: 349 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Simon Lovesey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 10:02am
Originally posted by winging it


For my part, I'm attempting to kill two birds with one stone by applying for a grant for three junior double handers in the hope that we can encourage more girls into the sport by way of the fact that double handed sailing is more sociable.  We'll see.


Well done Nessa,  I think if we can stop the decline and rejuvenate Double Hander sailing this will answer many issues the sport is facing,  eg encouraging newcomers,  girls and youngsters etc.

Sailing seems to have forgotten one of its USPs is the ability to take newcomers out in race boats and the social aspect of crewed boats.    I saw a fascinating presentation by the Alvimedica,  CEO who are new sponsors to the Volvo Ocean Race (VOR).  He said they had evaluated lots of sports to get involved with and came down on sailing due to the fact they could take clients out on their race boat,  no other sport offered that level of engagement.  
 




Edited by Simon Lovesey - 02 Feb 15 at 10:23am
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 11:13am
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by turnturtle

Chivalry ain't dead?

No but the young lad might be  Wink

But that's the point isn't it... let's park the fact that you could interpret these actions as one of a pompous condescending prick and instead offer a gentler, more good spirited outlook.  He was young, possibly naive, and quite probably less experienced at navigating the minefield of socio-gender politics than some of us.

Having met Nessa a couple of times, and also knowing about her experiences from here and on FB, I can quite clearly appreciate that if anyone should be dolling-out advice about the idiosyncrasies of the spawn of satan (outboard motors), their rather agricultural drive chains and the piss poor handling of many of the craft that carry them; then it's her.  After all, she has probably spent more hours in a RIB in a month than most of us are blighted with in a lifetime.  Gender is irrelevant, experience is.

However maybe the young lad was trying to be helpful, albeit where it was neither needed nor warranted.  There is are worse crimes out there and instead of putting it down to experience, his misguided enthusiasm is flagged up as an example of some kind of latent misogyny in our sport.   

What's the alternative- the next time one of us sees another person struggling to pull their boat up the slip we don't help them?  Because she is a woman and any help could be seen as patronising?  

Do we take it to the extremes of the banter from lad culture.... watching her struggle whilst laughing, Blue Wicked in hand, as one of 'the boys' points at her and calls out that she should 'Wo-Man The f**k Up?'   

Maybe if she slips over we can take a quick photo and post it to Facebook: hashtag-thisgirlcan't     

No I think not.  If we are looking at the ills in 21st century humanity, then one thing it could do with is being feminised somewhat.  Women don't start wars.  Women are rarely leaders in extreme religious zealotry.  Name me one female despot responsible for a genocidal atrocity?  And in the main, women don't commit the same amount of urban crime and domestic abuse- violent or otherwise.  If anything, it is men who should be emulating women, not the other way around, if society is to get better for us all.

Bringing this back on-topic.  Maybe we need to accept that equipment heavy sports are just not that appealing to some women.  I look around my groups of friends and my wife is quite unique for having a 'big girl's toy' - a horse.  Yet the guys all seem to have something- be that boats, guns, sports cars, expensive hi-fis, six-grand carbon bikes and even some who appear to have a pathological mental illness involving 'season tickets at the Villa'.... wherever the f**k that hellhole might be.  I think it involves going on the M6, therefore it can't be good.

Quite a few of the women I know and socialise with seem to prefer more piecemeal expenditure.  Treats and treatments as we jokingly call them.   

Ask any loss adjuster how under-insured most of households are.  Just as a simple exercise add up the cost of the handbags, shoes, jewellery and a wardrobe of barely worn designer clothes for a typical working middle-class, dual-income household.  Add on the depreciation of a new car every three years to do the school run and a dash or two to the Tesco Local.  Factor in an overseas holiday - outside of term time - every year.  It adds up to a lot, and are most things that quite a few blokes I know would willingly compromise on to get their toys, if the decision was there's alone to make.

I hate to think how much is spent on gyms, spas, beauty treatments, make up and hair-cuts.  But they're all industries, growth markets in fact, perpetuated by women for women, paid for with money they've earned themselves.  And no, before the outmoded feminist arguments spill-out, they don't do it all for the men in their lives, we don't live in Mad Men.  Women do these things for themselves.  In general men couldn't give a f**k.  Bottom line, add up the costs and it makes telling Rodney to 'tick every box' on the Finn Order Form rather more palatable imho.

If some women only sailed because their husbands needed crews, then so what if they've left?  Good luck to them in finding other more fulfilling ways to spend their free time and money.  If a club can't function without the 'dolly birds on Galley Duty' with homemade cakes, then frankly they should have hung up their burgees decades ago.  That does nothing for women in sport, quite the contrary.  

I certainly wouldn't want my wife to waste her weekend just so I could say 'double handers are more sociable and better to sail'.  Or let's be brutally honest, because lighter crews mean the fat lad at the back can still eat his bacon.  

Those women who want to sail, can.  They have equal access- more than equal if you consider the women's only initiatives in clubs which seem quite popular.    If we, as a sport, are left with women sailing on equal terms to the fellas, then frankly I think the sport is richer for it.  

I celebrate diversity, and think that boats and variations of boats designed with women in mind are great.  The PY system can be used to ensure accurate handicaps reflect the demographic of any one class, it can also be locally adjusted if necessary.  The sport has a lot going for it for those who are committed to it- and you need to be, it's not cheap, not compared to a pair of running shoes or a mid-range tennis racket. 

I don't see any need to rally double-handers purely to get 'women to events'.  If some women don't find boat ownership and freezing their arse off that much of an attractive concept, SFW?  Good luck to them with whatever they do with their time and cash - they only live once.


Edited by turnturtle - 02 Feb 15 at 12:14pm
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iiitick View Drop Down
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Posts: 478 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 11:47am
Very good Turtle....I mostly agree. At our club we have two mid twenties girls who both sail single handers with scant regard for their hair! One of these young ladies is one of my best friends, I always joke that we grew up together, and to an extent we did. The lady in question has been sailing since childhood and in those days and up until a few years ago I helped her, mending boats, giving her confidence and just helping out. Since her very successful university career she has bought her own car and flat and has a very good job. Now, as she has gained confidence and experience our roles have changed, rather than me being kindly patronising to her, she is kind and patronising to me. It is the same with my own four children. That is the way it should be.

I have never met Nessa but over these pages I have made an assessment of her character and experience. I think I would deffer to her knowledge of outboards and most other things sailing. If an inexperienced lady turned up at our club I would be friendly and try to help without stereotyping or patronising. (this applies to men as well of course, but we were not talking about men). There is no obvious way of dealing with this subject, one has to consider and modify as we go through life. However I do still believe in chivalry, it is part of my dna.

In the historic records held by our club there was a 'Ladies tea rosta'. Try suggesting that to our lady sailors in 2015!
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Woodbotherer View Drop Down
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Posts: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodbotherer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 11:58am
Who runs the galley at your club then tick? I'm embarrassed to say that even though I'm trying to have them replaced by a machine, our tea is almost 100% dispensed by wimmen, Saint Mary and Sharon (she's not been there long enough to be fully canonised)run the Galley rota amongst the sailing widows, occasionally guys to get involved, the re constructed ones, but we don't have that many of them. 
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