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Twenty years from now
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tmoore View Drop Down
Really should get out more
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Joined: 01 Nov 07
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Posts: 880 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Twenty years from now
    Posted: 29 Jan 15 at 4:29am
As one of the "missing 20-40 generation", I feel qualified to comment.  Most of my sailing mates have dropped out of sailing - I am the exception in that I still have a boat but sail 4-5 times a year if lucky.

I think that you will find the sailing community is rather more educated/ motivated/ ambitious/ curious and worldly than your average Joe (other names are of course available!).  As such you will find that upon leaving school/ uni etc, said 20 year old will go and travel, find a job, chase girls, try new sports and generally broaden their horizons.  In short there is an entire world out there which is readily and cheaply available for exploring (c.f 30 years ago).

I suspect that once we all settle down, pop out a few sprogs, get the whole adventure thing out of our system, then we will start returning to sailing in numbers.  Chances are that the aforementioned sprogs will also be put on a boat so that we can get some peace, have a beer and chill out once a week!

But until then we fully intend on frittering away our money on enjoying life.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Joined: 05 Dec 14
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 15 at 10:48pm
You can get snowboarding holidays for around £500 a week - not my cup of tea personally, but they are out there - Andorra, Bulgaria, Italy etc. Crystal can get you to Morzine for not much more, and meals out consist of a baguette with some jambon and Brie...... Booze out is trickier, so preload with cheap plonk bought up by seasonnaires from lower altitude supermarkets.

I wouldn't say Switzerland would be so cheap right now though....

Sailing events - fuel, accommodation, entry fees, new sails and you turn up and there's no fecking wind or some dick protests you because you put too much halyard on and the head plate is over the black band.... snowsports. in season, much safer bet.....
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Joined: 26 Jan 12
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 15 at 9:28pm
Surely the Oz experience says loud and clear "it's not about money"  Cry

If people want to do something they will work around the money (or time) issue.

If they don't chucking money at it doesn't make a scrap of difference.

It is all about self driven will to get out and get stuck in.

Not new shiny cool boats, super pay and play or it seems be paid to play mega clubs. 
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Mar 05
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 15 at 9:24pm
Originally posted by bustinben

Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by bustinben

 There aren't many 25-35 year olds who can afford 4-6 holidays per year  Smile

i knew plenty who went snowboarding 4 times a year, kitesurfing twice a year etc  - but then the equipment is seriously much cheaper, lower maintenance and the craic worth the hassle of staying in rented.  I bought my first flat at 22 in North London on a 105% mortgage....  we all take our choices.

It was often those able to take unpaid leave, or in the armed forces or teachers who seem to get quite a bit of time off compared to the commercial world of 20 days including an obligatory 4 for christmas. And a request for a sabbatical or unpaid leave was basically queue jumping to statutory redundancy during the recessions of the last 10 years. 

My experience is the same actually.  Going snowboarding or kitesurfing though - £500 for a week?  Doing a sailing event.. probably nearer £1k.  Maybe I'm underestimating though the snowboarding costs though!

Hang on, snowboarding or skiing £500, I wish!  Flights plus car hire or drive plus tunnel say £200 - £400, ski hire Say £ 100, ski pass £ 200, Accomodation? Eating on Mountain? Après Ski? Evening meal?

Sharing a house at a championships with my mates, couple of meals out, considerably less, probably more like £500 a head.

I do accept the time argument, though I gave up a perfectly good career in the city 30 years ago to go to the J24 nationals ... I don't regret where this decision has led
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JimC View Drop Down
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Joined: 17 May 04
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 15 at 9:16pm
Originally posted by Rat Man

we'll all be working until 70


Yeah right. How many people make it to even 65 now without being early retired or made redundant with no prospect of another job at anywhere that pays any better than B&Q?
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bustinben View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 Oct 06
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Posts: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 15 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by bustinben

 There aren't many 25-35 year olds who can afford 4-6 holidays per year  Smile

i knew plenty who went snowboarding 4 times a year, kitesurfing twice a year etc  - but then the equipment is seriously much cheaper, lower maintenance and the craic worth the hassle of staying in rented.  I bought my first flat at 22 in North London on a 105% mortgage....  we all take our choices.

It was often those able to take unpaid leave, or in the armed forces or teachers who seem to get quite a bit of time off compared to the commercial world of 20 days including an obligatory 4 for christmas. And a request for a sabbatical or unpaid leave was basically queue jumping to statutory redundancy during the recessions of the last 10 years. 

My experience is the same actually.  Going snowboarding or kitesurfing though - £500 for a week?  Doing a sailing event.. probably nearer £1k.  Maybe I'm underestimating though the snowboarding costs though!


Edited by bustinben - 28 Jan 15 at 8:51pm
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bustinben View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 Oct 06
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Posts: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 15 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

Life isn't all that bad for these poor impoverished kids that have to buy houses a 5.5 times salary. People were asking regularly for that amount of mortgage back in the 90's. 

... because they knew that prices were rising and rising!  And they were right!  Not a valid comparison Tongue


And there's help now...

http://www.helptobuy.org.uk

"Help to buy" ?  Give me a break.  Help to people who banked their retirement on the housing market by propping up prices at the bottom end more like.

All help to buy does is push prices up, it's not a "bailout" or "help" to first time buyers unless you have a degree in economics from the Express.


No one bailed me out. Even though Nigel Lawson & Normal Lamount f**ked the economy for us.

So I'm currently sitting with a mortgage that will be paid off when I'm 75!

And what am I doing with regard to sailing? I've invested quite a bit of time and money in bringing a great little boat over that 'the kids' should all be sailing in 20 years time ;-). Coz it's hands down the funnest thing everrrrr...

Obviously I'm generalising here.  The value of your investment may go down as well as really down.  Not everyone got lucky in the housing market LOL 
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 15 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by chris_wht

Originally posted by Chris 249

 they can get a skiff on an interest-free loan, store it for free, get free beer, and get paid $250 just for starting a club race on it.

You can? Right, im on the next flight... 

Yep. Belmont 16s paid out over $500,000 in 'sailing expenses' last financial year, including giving members up to $2,500 to buy a skiff (so a skiff crew may get a $7500 gift, which is enough for a good older boat, AND they can get an advance on prize money on top of that), paying entry fees to championships, subsidising regatta travel, etc. Club membership is (IIRC) $20 but they pay the national authority fee so effectively people from other clubs could make a tiny profit by joining one of the Skiff clubs.

I think Belmont and Manly both currently pay around $250 each time a 16 starts, plus a similar amount for every handicap or club championship win. I'm not sure if the free beer and BBQ at Belmont is on every week, but it may be. Of course, it all comes from the 31,000 social members who go to the clubhouse to use the various bars, restaurants and one armed bandits.

And yet, with all that and fleets of high performance boats, most kids STILL drop out of sailing, which seems to indicate that the reason for the drop out cannot be that the boats are too slow, the club too small and nerdy, the water too restricted (most Skiff clubs sail on bays that are miles wide, while one effectively sails on the open sea a lot of the time) etc etc etc.
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craiggo View Drop Down
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 15 at 7:40pm
My clubs membership has been pretty constant for the last 20yrs. We aren't on a lake so no weed problems and our
youth are actively involved in training newbies. I can however see that some of the more historically prestigious clubs are struggling due to local water board, other lake users, and a lack of family social scene and the dreaded weed and blue green algae. In truth though I don't think it will impact clubs as much as some of you think.
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winging it View Drop Down
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 15 at 7:20pm
my club membership isnt falling, and we are buoyed up by family and youth memberships, but I think we are an exception.

I actually think that what will kill off the small clubs, no matter how healthy their membership, is the fact we are no longer allowed to use herbicide to keep the weed at bay.  Weed has become our biggest issue.  Big clubs with deep water will survive, but keeping it at bay is massively expensive and time consuming for smaller clubs.

Invasive species will also become more prevalent and might limit travel to opens etc.

we are indeed doomed.
the same, but different...

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