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Rupert View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 11:54am
So many of the kids I have taught at Juniors have come from previously non sailing families, I can't agree that offspring of sailors are the only people involved. And I've been doing this long enough that some of those that I taught are still sailing as adults, and some even have kids, who will become offspring of sailors, sailing.

Can't remember how we got to sailing mags from the Melges 14 - possibly because we ran out of things to say about a small plastic singlehander with nothing particularly "new" about it. Which would be a bit of a problem for magazines trying to make such a boat interesting enough for readers to buy a copy.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Can't remember how we got to sailing mags from the Melges 14 - possibly because we ran out of things to say about a small plastic singlehander with nothing particularly "new" about it. Which would be a bit of a problem for magazines trying to make such a boat interesting enough for readers to buy a copy.

no, but a proper investigative piece could question whether the vapourware coming out of Melges is damaging to the only adult singlehanded class sailed globally; and what it really means to sailing if boats like this start building new fleets.  Just sayin'
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 12:40pm
So, the choice between individual freedom and the good of society, all in a sailing microcosm? In sailing terms, of course, there is the choice simply not to sail at all if you don't want to sail the boat which is for the good of society.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 12:52pm
kind of... yes.  A list of pros and cons for both get more or less universal acceptance.

And that then leads to hybrid theories.... where classes retain class status for higher level competition, but for everyday club stuff at everyday clubs, classes fall into Categories, where freedom of expression and choice in the hardware shares the platform with simple, easy to follow, first across the line competition of one-design racing.
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Presuming Ed View Drop Down
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Posts: 641 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by Null


Which leads me seamlessly on to how the dinghy community is or can be communicated to nowadays.  There are no magazines (Y&Y is frankly toilet paper) Sailing Anarchy delivers no real message other than forum noise.  Y&Y.com is great, but it doesn't fill the gap completely and is only really a hub for PR.  So its left to social media, which is full of all kinds of bias.  Seems to me there is a glaring gap for a consumer led website or digital mag for the club sailor.

Would think that the future model is probably far better based on YouTube/social media. Something like the GLobal Cycling Network: http://www.globalcyclingnetwork.com/

So who would be good presenters? With preferably at least one woman? Is the market big enough?


Edited by Presuming Ed - 22 Jan 15 at 1:22pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 1:23pm
Effectively, classes are in categories in handicap racing. My Lightning 368 is in the 1150 category, currently. Trouble is, the categories are so small you rarely get to sail against other boats in the same one - apart from maybe other Lightning 368s, but then that is One Design again.

So open them out. have an 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ,13 category. The Lightning, Solo, Byte, Firefly would fit in the 11 box, along with many more. But 100 points on the handicap system is a hell of a lot. The OK and Enterprise would also be in there, and the Comet. What chance would the Comet have of winning? So, you reduce the category size, and so the number of boats on the start line is reduced - halved, maybe, if you have 8, 8.5, 9, 9.5 etc. And it is still biased towards the boats at the fast end of the box. So, divide it again, and you end up roughly with what we have now. I still think that a 10 point granularity is close enough, but you still end up with handicap racing as being a more fair system than categories.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 1:40pm
This is because boats are being designed and launched as new classes, or worse lipstick classes, not into new categories.

I know it's pipe dreaming, but the Aero and Zero racing together would be great.  And to bring this loosely back on topic, if some mug wants to pay import duty on an M14, then fair enough... let's let Daddy Warbucks come play too.  


Edited by turnturtle - 22 Jan 15 at 1:40pm
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gordon1277 View Drop Down
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Posts: 665 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 1:52pm
Turtle
Why not let the RS300,Finn and Phantom in as well? I am positive both the Aero 9 and Zero's handicap will drop to close to the Phantom as more results are recorded.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 1:53pm
I don't think many boats would be launched into the categories, and if they were, they would be designed to be the fastest boat in it, so meaning you needed that boat to win in that category - meaning you defeat the object of it all. For me, the only way it would work is as a banding together of already existing designs to stop them falling into oblivion. I hope neither the Aero or Zero will have this problem for many years to come. It might work in windsurfing, where there is far less difference in design between boards than there is between boats, so sail size can be used as a category, but I simply can't see it working in dinghy sailing.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 1:59pm
An alternative is the idea that the CMBA use in the USA. The rig is standard (in their case the old rules low aspect Moth rig) and you bung under it a hull that fits some pretty basic criteria. Do that with 2 or 3 rig design sizes (say ones that match the 5, 7 and 9 of the Aero, but I bet RS wouldn't agree...) where you can then put a hull of certain dimensions under it. You get no expensive rig development coats that are a large portion of a development class, but can design hulls to suit, some of which might become one designs, like the Europe did.

Edit - thinking about it, this is effectively what the Open Sailing Canoe Group have done, having given up on defining what a canoe is.




Edited by Rupert - 22 Jan 15 at 2:01pm
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