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    Posted: 25 Nov 14 at 9:26pm
Ah that explains it, no crew to adjust the stringy bits.

I would point out that the only concern over safety and capsize concerns are from people who haven't sailed the boat. There are now numerous videos on the Facebook pages showing all sorts of capsize recovery by all sizes of people. We tested it for capsize in lots of breeze and waves and there is always an easy way in. If you are over 90 kg, over the stern is dead easy. Below that and provided you are not a sloth over the side is fine. If anyone has the slightest doubt, look at the Facebook page or sail the boat. 


Edited by SimonW99 - 25 Nov 14 at 9:52pm
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 14 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by SimonW99

I would point out that the only concern over safety and concerns are from people who haven't sailed the boat.  


Incorrect- they were raised after a well respected laser sailor published his issues with righting it on his blog.

i think the 'cynics' have been more than fair on that one Simon, giving RS, Pete,yourself and the resident rent a fanboy a chance to respond, but please don't spin it - the issue was raised directly after sailing, and there are rumours his issue wasn't his alone... but why bother going into that. The only safe course of action is a test capsize on a test sail- anyone who fails to do that, in light of the issues highlighted, Is a bit of a tool imho.

Edited by kneewrecker - 25 Nov 14 at 9:55pm
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 14 at 10:05pm
I really don't think its an issue. Jimbo I do wonder if you really mean to keep putting the Aero down as a result of having your fingers burnt on the 100 or whether you think in some way your opinion on the matter is the gospel on this boat and that you feel aggrieved that more people aren't siding with you.

From my point of view, how the boat recovers from a capsize is of little interest as I don't intend to be in that position. Boats blowing away from people is nothing new, after all most catamarans can go at a fair old lick on their sides but people still buy and sail them. My own 700 is an arse to right from a capsize but I judge and select my boats based on how they sail and not on what they do when it goes wrong. I recently was reminded of how much water a Graduate takes onboard in a capsize, and it took me a lap of a race to empty it. Did this put me off? No, it just makes me want to sort my big wind boat handling out so that I dont do it again.

Please can we stop the Aero bashing, its getting boring!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 14 at 10:36pm
The point is clear, the laser sailor found getting in from the side more difficult than a laser and it probably marginally is, but the boat is half the weight so body weight is a higher percentage. However it's fine if you are quick and not to heavy. If you love pies, then go over the stern, your granny could do it blindfold. So it's pointless throwing bricks at an imagined issue that just isn't there.

In terms of blowing away, ever tried a vortex, or any double skinned dinghy with a masthead float - how about a cat..... The 'tester' had a masthead float, which makes any dinghy float away. Look at the videos or sail the boat, it's not a problem.

It's lightness means youngsters can right it and move it into the wind easily. 

The boat is a doddle to right if you invert it whereas many dinghies are not..

Look at the Facebook RS aero page for lots of videos or sail the boat. 
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 14 at 11:53pm
Originally posted by craiggo

I really don't think its an issue. Jimbo I do wonder if you really mean to keep putting the Aero down as a result of having your fingers burnt on the 100 or whether you think in some way your opinion on the matter is the gospel on this boat and that you feel aggrieved that more people aren't siding with you.

From my point of view, how the boat recovers from a capsize is of little interest as I don't intend to be in that position. Boats blowing away from people is nothing new, after all most catamarans can go at a fair old lick on their sides but people still buy and sail them. My own 700 is an arse to right from a capsize but I judge and select my boats based on how they sail and not on what they do when it goes wrong. I recently was reminded of how much water a Graduate takes onboard in a capsize, and it took me a lap of a race to empty it. Did this put me off? No, it just makes me want to sort my big wind boat handling out so that I dont do it again.

Please can we stop the Aero bashing, its getting boring!

If you'd read what I wrote, rather than jump in with some bullsh*t pop-psychology, you'd see I'd agreed with you.  I've even linked to the RS videos on the source material, and stated on here and SA that I think it wouldn't be that hard to get in from a capsize- it's just a dinghy after all.  It will require some changes in technique, something Pete appears to be addressing, something I thought was blindingly obvious- as I once did myself when challenged by the very same accusation for a boat I wanted to see succeed.

I simply was correcting Simon's subtle re-positioning that this 'capsize issue' was raised by someone who hadn't sailed the boat, when indeed the guy only wrote about his experience from sailing it.  Fair play to him.

There are other similar rumours, none of which anyone's felt compelled to share or highlight here, but if you want it, here it goes.....  



Apparently there was another dramatic rescue at Bowmoor at the weekend.  (Do I need to add the speech marks to ensure the level of irony is observable?)  But some of us who are involved in a sister sport would be forgiven for taking a second moment to re-assess assumed risks, and taking safety and our abilities for granted after this weekend.

As you took it down a personal line, from my own point of view, I'll discuss any boat or aspect of sailing I'm interested in.  I certainly don't expect anyone to take my opinions on such things as gospel, nor indeed do I expect my posts to have the journalistic rigour of a professional publication.  They are however my own opinions, formed on what's avialable- material put out there to help me make a conscious consumer decision.  I am not swayed by the prospect of a paid gig in return, or sycophantic based on brand loyalty or some such crap others seem to rely on.  And FWIW, I've long been at peace with the fact that my views are often in the minority when it comes to sailing stuff, (thank the lord) and that my own opinions may change with time, experience and as requirements shift to meet a different set of needs and wants from my sailing leisure time.  

The Aero- I'm told, is aimed to cater for sailors of my weight and calibre.  A 90kg+ club level sailor.   That's interesting- we're pretty limited in choice once you factor in light wind prevailing conditions.  If you must know, I stalled my next boat purchase (a planned RS300 once I'd seen the quote for a Finn) to find out more about this very boat.

Nothing so far has convinced me it's anything but a kids and light weight adult's boat at best, and for that it looks great- far better than a Laser 4.7 and Radial.

Awaiting more info.....
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 14 at 12:06am
Originally posted by kneewrecker

Apparently there was another dramatic rescue at Bowmoor at the weekend. 

What happened?
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 14 at 7:16am
Shame this isn't still the RSpeculation thread, after all that is all it is, I heard on the grapevine some guy needed to be taken ashore after spending 10 minutes fighting a capsized Aero and hypothermia... But please, that story could be utter b**locks or at the very least rather embellished, missing maybe a gear failure aspect or any other number of variables which would exonerate the boat's design.

Given this is the second dinghy launched with this criticism in the last decade, I'd be asking questions about why more sailors don't seemingly know about Plan B - going over the transom. I was doing that in my Oppy in heavy wind in the 80's- genuinely, is this method no longer on an RYA syllabus or something- to me it's second nature... If fingers need pointing somewhere, then it's at the training and capsize drills, not RS.
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 14 at 9:06am
I've tried to avoid going over the transom after my sea-anchor body at the stern caused the boat to bear away and start sailing downwind, then capsize again.

That was undoubtedly a boat with shrouds, and I guess the boom can happily go out further on an unstayed rig (provided the mainsheet isn't cleated), so it's probably not an issue for the Aero/Zero/Laser. But I don't think rear-entry is a solution for all boats, so maybe the RYA shies away from teaching it.
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 14 at 9:35am
Unless you have a rescue boat securing the nose, I found going in over the back in the 100 just as impossible for the very reason MM highlights, as soon as you weight one side or the other of the stern it bears off and capsizes .
I didn't get to capsize the Aero, was going to give it a go when we get our demo, but neither did I capsize the zero either which has equal issue in my mind because of the lack of grabby bits, but it didn't stop me considering either of them, only the Yardstick decision put paid to that.
But to be fair to RS they were the only ones that gave me a pre sail instructional briefing on how to get back in before I went out, which I immediately forgot since it wasn't that breezy at that point, but went something along the lines of making sure you launched yourself into the middle of the boat rather than hanging on the side once your up there, I guess I'd have had to employ the technique I learned in the 100 of getting the rig to windward pinned down by the wind then dive into the middle as the wind lifted it up.

On a positive note I hadn't seen This it's a cool way to check the boat out..

Edited by iGRF - 26 Nov 14 at 9:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 14 at 10:14am
Originally posted by kneewrecker

Originally posted by craiggo

I really don't think its an issue. Jimbo I do wonder if you really mean to keep putting the Aero down as a result of having your fingers burnt on the 100 or whether you think in some way your opinion on the matter is the gospel on this boat and that you feel aggrieved that more people aren't siding with you.

From my point of view, how the boat recovers from a capsize is of little interest as I don't intend to be in that position. Boats blowing away from people is nothing new, after all most catamarans can go at a fair old lick on their sides but people still buy and sail them. My own 700 is an arse to right from a capsize but I judge and select my boats based on how they sail and not on what they do when it goes wrong. I recently was reminded of how much water a Graduate takes onboard in a capsize, and it took me a lap of a race to empty it. Did this put me off? No, it just makes me want to sort my big wind boat handling out so that I dont do it again.

Please can we stop the Aero bashing, its getting boring!

If you'd read what I wrote, rather than jump in with some bullsh*t pop-psychology, you'd see I'd agreed with you.  I've even linked to the RS videos on the source material, and stated on here and SA that I think it wouldn't be that hard to get in from a capsize- it's just a dinghy after all.  It will require some changes in technique, something Pete appears to be addressing, something I thought was blindingly obvious- as I once did myself when challenged by the very same accusation for a boat I wanted to see succeed.

I simply was correcting Simon's subtle re-positioning that this 'capsize issue' was raised by someone who hadn't sailed the boat, when indeed the guy only wrote about his experience from sailing it.  Fair play to him.

There are other similar rumours, none of which anyone's felt compelled to share or highlight here, but if you want it, here it goes.....  



Apparently there was another dramatic rescue at Bowmoor at the weekend.  (Do I need to add the speech marks to ensure the level of irony is observable?)  But some of us who are involved in a sister sport would be forgiven for taking a second moment to re-assess assumed risks, and taking safety and our abilities for granted after this weekend.

As you took it down a personal line, from my own point of view, I'll discuss any boat or aspect of sailing I'm interested in.  I certainly don't expect anyone to take my opinions on such things as gospel, nor indeed do I expect my posts to have the journalistic rigour of a professional publication.  They are however my own opinions, formed on what's avialable- material put out there to help me make a conscious consumer decision.  I am not swayed by the prospect of a paid gig in return, or sycophantic based on brand loyalty or some such crap others seem to rely on.  And FWIW, I've long been at peace with the fact that my views are often in the minority when it comes to sailing stuff, (thank the lord) and that my own opinions may change with time, experience and as requirements shift to meet a different set of needs and wants from my sailing leisure time.  

The Aero- I'm told, is aimed to cater for sailors of my weight and calibre.  A 90kg+ club level sailor.   That's interesting- we're pretty limited in choice once you factor in light wind prevailing conditions.  If you must know, I stalled my next boat purchase (a planned RS300 once I'd seen the quote for a Finn) to find out more about this very boat.

Nothing so far has convinced me it's anything but a kids and light weight adult's boat at best, and for that it looks great- far better than a Laser 4.7 and Radial.

Awaiting more info....."


A planned 300.... unless there has been an epiphany, the class you have been so strongly supporting and set up the association website for might be a bit surprised to hear thats always been the plan.

And good luck with trying to get into a 300 over the side.

 "Heard through the grapevine of another dramatic rescue...." FFS. Get in the boat and sail it then you might be in a position to make these statement. People get tired and picked up all the time by rescue boats from all sorts of dinghies. 

We spent over an hour in 15 plus knots and waves doing capsize drills with a sailor who is mid 60's and 90kgs. Even when he was completely knackered, he could still easily get in over the stern. 

Perhaps we should look at all the other singlehanded dinghies and demand videos of them being righted and boarded from capsized and fully inverted?
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