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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS aero
    Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 2:56am
You could do both the things you suggest in your last paragraph, Chris, if your club rules allowed it. You'd not be allowed to race a windsurfer at all at WSC, though, for reasons lost in the mists of time.

Oddly, although we allow Lasers sailors to do whatever they like with rigs, I can't recall a Laser ever winning a handicap race at senior level, although some pretty good sailors have managed the odd 2nd. In fact, when rig-switching was allowed the warning was given that the permission would be withdrawn if they started cleaning up. In practice, however, they continue to enjoy sailing just the way they want to without any issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 7:22am
I am not suggesting going up a rig on light days at all, you just take the heaviest handicap you can cope with and can reduce sail area from there. If you are a radial sailor, you can drop to a 4.7 when it howls. In club racing I doubt that would every give a real advantage, but allows everyone to sail over a wider wind range. At club handicap level there are always a couple of people more interested in the rules and regs, but most of us just want to have a good sail. If that means chucking on a radial when it's 18 knots then why not.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 7:28am
Originally posted by davidyacht

Originally posted by SimonW99

Sailing is in a big decline

Though I totally agree with the idea that we should not build obstacles to participation, is the above statement evidence based?  

Sure, there are places where sailing is not thriving, but by I see a lot of activity at Hayling, Warsash, Lymington and Salcombe, and those are places I see with my own eyes when travelling with work.  

I read from Y&Y reports that inland clubs like Lowton, Blithfield, Hollowell, Frensham are thriving.  I know these are a handful of clubs, but there are plenty of other successfull clubs, so what are they doing right that others are doing wrong?

Sadly very true, don't have stats on me, but sailing, particularly with younger competitors has been in decline for some years. 25 years ago a teenager may have thought that sailing on the local gravel pit with dad in his enterprise was ok to do on a weekend, but they grow up fast and modern life offers them so many more alternatives. The massive growth in singlehanders in recent years is driven by middle aged men basically not having children ( and wives ) for crew. There are lots of clubs working very hard to try an encourage youth sailing, some with success, but many without. But the average age in the boat park is much higher than it used to be.
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 8:13am
Simon, I think the problem is that at the moment the boat is being promoted as 3 classes. With 3 different py's.  Not the same class with different rigs.  So actually why don't phantom sailors switch down boats to a laser when it's honking?  It's actually exactly the same thing.  The reefing argument is also a moot point as reefer sails are nearly always a big compromise on shape.  Especially when compared to a complete rig changed designed to work in a reduced volume format.  I also feel is pretty disrespectful to call it 'just club racing'. Some people really enjoy their club racing and take it far too seriously in my opinion.  However that's their perogative, they may not travel or go to nationals so their name on the club trophey means something.  So changing class because the weather suits it would be an obvious advantage and therefore be a little harsh on others taking it seriously.

In my opinion I also think the aero needs to define itself as 3 classes and as such does not need to muddy the water with rig swapping.  History tells us clubs just won't get it and you will end up with 1 merged number.  This would really make the class a light weights boat as they could then swap rigs whenever they felt like it meaning you bigger boys would be flumxed.  So whilst I can see your point of view I think it needs greater consideration from the sailors and the class, bearing in mind there are others also racing in handicap fleets - something you noted, when you mention sailing is in decline.  we need to encourage not to dissuade.  Making things tougher for these weekend warriors is not a positive thing!
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gordon1277 View Drop Down
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Posts: 665 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 8:24am
Another option in light winds is you lend your 9 or Phantom to some really good lightweight who very nearly wins an event and stuffs all your normal size mates out of site. you sit in the bar and laugh.
Ask Slow about the Starcross steamer a few years ago.

On a more serious note I sailed the 9 at over 110kg and my only issue was it was so cramped(and stupid delivery dates meant missing a whole season), not as flexible as I was so need a bit more space.
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 8:28am
Originally posted by SimonW99


Sadly very true, don't have stats on me, but sailing, particularly with younger competitors has been in decline for some years. 25 years ago a teenager may have thought that sailing on the local gravel pit with dad in his enterprise was ok to do on a weekend, but they grow up fast and modern life offers them so many more alternatives. The massive growth in singlehanders in recent years is driven by middle aged men basically not having children ( and wives ) for crew. There are lots of clubs working very hard to try an encourage youth sailing, some with success, but many without. But the average age in the boat park is much higher than it used to be.

To be fair to you, I know where you are coming from, and I suspect that your club like ours may have 50+ youngsters out on a Tuesday night and Saturday morning in club owned boats, but lose them from 18+ to 40.  When for the moment most of our sailors are in the 40 to 70 range.

I also accept your point about two person boats, and I wonder how much of this is due to the development of dinghies that are both too scary and uncomfortable for your typical husband/wife, parent/child combo?  

I often wonder what two person boat we could develop here to compliment our Solo fleet, that had the same appeal as the Solo, two Man hiker, no sip, with seats for the crew ... You end up with a number of old designs, Fireflies, Ents, Albacores ... But none of them have had such a good makeover as the Solo and therefore fail to appeal to the helm who is most likely to be the owner.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 8:30am
Originally posted by SimonW99

I am not suggesting going up a rig on light days at all, you just take the heaviest handicap you can cope with and can reduce sail area from there. If you are a radial sailor, you can drop to a 4.7 when it howls. In club racing I doubt that would every give a real advantage, but allows everyone to sail over a wider wind range. At club handicap level there are always a couple of people more interested in the rules and regs, but most of us just want to have a good sail. If that means chucking on a radial when it's 18 knots then why not.


Indeed why not. But accept that you are sailing a different class of dinghy, and getting a race in that you might not have done if the smaller rig wasn't there, so if it doesn't count for the series, so what?

I've swapped for a Topper often enough when it is howling. Wouldn't expect it to count for my results in the Lightning, whether sailing off Lightning or Topper handicap.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 9:04am
As an advocate of swap up/down if you want to, I'm not for one minute suggesting the series police need get their knickers in a twist.

The way I view it.... and the way I viewed owning both an 8.4 and 10.2 rig for my 100, was that I had two boats for the price of one.

In an ideal semi-retired, time and cash rich world, my dinghy flotilla would include a Finn for light winds, a Contender for wiring weather and a D-Zero for the odd class event/piss up for when windguru authorised the travel.  Would I give a rats ass for my series result?  Or what about the marginal negative impact that might have on a class averaged handicap by denying my results in adverse conditions?  No, not one jot, because I know for me personally, I would have enjoyed each session all the more for sailing in a boat that is suited for the conditions on the day.

Zero guilt, sorry if it that's not popular.
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 9:09am
Really cannot see the reason for this to go round and round or get all hissy with RS or how Aero sailors choose to behave.

Three rigs = 3 PY numbers: for an individual race you have the PY for that rig. For series scoring the responsibility is with Clubs to choose the format to adopt.

FWIW our club has chosen that the points will follow the Sailor, whatever they sail or if they are crew or helm. We have decided to go all out for rewarding participation.
  
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 14 at 9:27am
Originally posted by Do Different

FWIW our club has chosen that the points will follow the Sailor, whatever they sail or if they are crew or helm. We have decided to go all out for rewarding participation.

sounds like a good idea, thanks for sharing it.   Thumbs Up
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