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    Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 11:03am
See what you call it... Fun!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 10:53am
Originally posted by Old Timer

Originally posted by SimonW99

I can absolutely testify that an aero 9 in flat water and a decent clean corridor of breeze can be made to plane 'upwind' because I have done it on a couple of occasions. I have no idea ...

I suspect what you experienced wasn't planing upwind but more a nice turn of speed "upwind" i.e. a fetch  ... the physics of this design would not support that unless you are some super human specimen who is very very very tall and can hike like a loon ...

There is endless debate about what is planing and even those well versed in hydrodynamics will rarely completely agree, but after 35 years in dinghies I do at least have an idea. When you accelerate to a point where there is no release wave, the hull lifts and you move to a noticeable different level of speed, I , like most would consider that planing in common parliance.

Jo and Dan could I am sure give you a technical description. Get in a 9 , find some flat water and 12 to 14 knots of clear air then free off , hike like hell and see what you call it Big smile

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 10:33am
Originally posted by Rupert

Re reading the article, it is a quiote by an enthusiastic Chelmarsh member after a trial sail in an article written by Chelmarsh SC. Not to be taken as gospel, I'd say. But if that is the amount of enthusiasm being shown by lots of club members for a new boat - so much so they have an instant fleet - then I'd say both boat and club are going to do well.
 
Rupert i completely agree with this.  I get grief, because I am like the chap at Chelmarsh a really excited consumer who is chuffed to bits with his purchase.  I genuinely am.  I expect the Chelmarsh boys to feel the same.  Its human nature!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 10:24am
Those the Gods wish to destroy ... they made mad first !

Seriously both *ero's look to be fine and all the sniping,' tub-thumping' and 'bull' on here and on other forums ain't going to make a jot of difference as to which one prevails in the longer term.  Both sets of owners and would-be owners might find it very interesting to review current contributions on threads and comments like this in say a couple of years.... 'eye of the beholder' stuff surely ?

In the meantime since many seemingly find the Blaze irresistible as some sort of  benchmark (why?- It is VERY different in so many ways) I, with my own obvious preference, might humbly suggest you also try or revisit  the Blaze .. or Fire .. or Halo.  Not necessarily 'better' at all whatever that is, just different.  

Whatever you sail ...or want to ..... just enjoy it and don't fret too much when others get satisfaction with something different.  Be pleased you have a choice - Jeffers take on this is about right in my book.

Mike L.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 10:12am
Originally posted by SimonW99

I can absolutely testify that an aero 9 in flat water and a decent clean corridor of breeze can be made to plane 'upwind' because I have done it on a couple of occasions. I have no idea ...

I suspect what you experienced wasn't planing upwind but more a nice turn of speed "upwind" i.e. a fetch  ... the physics of this design would not support that unless you are some super human specimen who is very very very tall and can hike like a loon ...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 9:36am
Of course it's worth celebrating. Even more so as the performance improvement is so big. What would not be worth celebrating would be factually incorrect statements about a dinghy design supported by the manufacturer on a forum concerned with with dinghy development. Not that we have necessarily have that, but you suggested we did.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 9:25am
Originally posted by Oinks


From the Blaze website...Fortunately for us the Blaze can also plane upwind as well in some conditions (some modern ones and a few older ones will) This is a function of its excellent power to weight and leverage provided by the wings.

The Blaze can plane upwind and get a good VMG, I am no sailing rockstar and I did it many times when I owned one about 7 years ago. The leverage makes all the difference, you are pretty much as far out as if you were trapezeing off the gunwhale.

Originally posted by Blue One

Was just about post a long winded post about car adds and the d-0 v aero sh#t fight. But Rupert and igrf have made the points very concisely.

The guys I talked to at emsworth at the weekend sailing d-0 and aeros were just having a great time sailing their modern well design new boats, isn't that something to celebrate?

That is what is important. Sail and Aero, sail a Zero, sail a Solo for all I care as long as you enjoy your sailing that is what is important isn't it?
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 9:23am
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

The blaze is over a metre wider than the aero.
A Smith and Wesson generally beats two aces.
Even that leverage would struggle to make 12kts (planing) with true wind fwd of
Mid ships.
As mentioned elsewhere, I overtook a 9 on a close reach in a f4 and I was definitely not planing.

Come on Dan that's not a fair statement. You in a boat you have designed and sailed for 5+ years against someone in the boat for the 3rd time, albeit similar ability. Racing was boat on boat and he also got past you a number of times. I can absolutely testify that an aero 9 in flat water and a decent clean corridor of breeze can be made to plane 'upwind' because I have done it on a couple of occasions. I have no idea if the 7 or 5 can do the same trick. I still believe its 'upwind' planing is far enough off upwind to be a good deal slower than pointing properly on a VMG basis, but as said elsewhere, it's still quite a neat trick for a small boat without racks. If you say your boat planes on the same basis, I would not doubt it. As said repeatedly, these boats will end up with very similar PY's and will have edge over each other in different conditions and angles.

No one really cares, they are both great boats and I would have either boat over the current clutch of boats, dependent on location provided a fleet could be established because they are both a step forward in design and construction. The boats are different enough in other areas to give people a nice choice, but boat on boat performance is now almost irrelevant as they are so close, I guess within 10 points of each other. I think a far more interesting discussion us to understand what drove your and Jo's hull shapes which then end up with similar performance.

That's said a 60 boat solo fleet at HISC would sway me, but I would have to wear a fake beard and sunnies!!


Edited by SimonW99 - 31 Oct 14 at 9:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Blue One Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 9:13am
Was just about post a long winded post about car adds and the d-0 v aero sh#t fight. But Rupert and igrf have made the points very concisely.

The guys I talked to at emsworth at the weekend sailing d-0 and aeros were just having a great time sailing their modern well designed new boats, isn't that something to celebrate?

Edited by Blue One - 31 Oct 14 at 10:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 9:11am
Re reading the article, it is a quiote by an enthusiastic Chelmarsh member after a trial sail in an article written by Chelmarsh SC. Not to be taken as gospel, I'd say. But if that is the amount of enthusiasm being shown by lots of club members for a new boat - so much so they have an instant fleet - then I'd say both boat and club are going to do well.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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