Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 161752 Tynemouth |
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List classes of boat for sale |
PY Inland vs Sea |
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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I've never played golf at all, but it appears that golf's approach to equipment is so different to sailing's approach that it's hard to use the same approach to handicaps. Golf gear is highly restricted, in terms of both performance and dimensions*. As Rupert said, it seems that golf equipment is akin to a single class (loose OD or restricted development) whereas dinghy handicap fleets often include a huge range of designs.
Down here in Oz, it's the norm to have personal handicaps and there are scoring programs that do the work automatically so they create PH results at the same time that they create yardstick results. No extra work is required. Personal handicaps seem to work really well in terms of giving more people the chance to feel satisfied. Bizarrely, though, most yacht racing down here is done with personal handicaps only, which means that being consistently mediocre is often the best way to "win". * yes, the magazine ads claim that buying a new set of clubs will radically improve performance, but stats indicate that average performance hasn't actually improved much, if at all, over the years. |
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blaze720 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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At BSC each week personal handicaps are re-calculated ... automatically. They are then posted in time for the following weeks race.
Might not be for the purist or confirmed coffee cup collection obsessive of course. But it really does work and encourages newbies and many more simply to try harder. Many more have a chance of winning and it is the best recruiting method (for 'regular' racing) out there. Want bigger fleets ? Really sure ? I'm guessing and speculating but clubs that do this regularly will survice a lot more vigorously than those who stay ultra-traditonalist. Bottom line is that we all need to encourage newcomers - worth a try surely ? There are plenty of races out there for 'level' (or not so level) racing anyway even if 'level' racing handicaps are sometimes imperfect. Mike L. |
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Oinks ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 24 Oct 14 Location: Bandol Online Status: Offline Posts: 267 |
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and it is the best recruiting method (for 'regular' racing) out there...
I have raced regularly at BSC for years...I don't see a huge amount of evidence of regular Weds evening sailors migrating to Sunday's racing. |
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blaze720 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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I have raced regularly at BSC for years...I don't see a huge amount
of evidence of regular Weds evening sailors migrating to Sunday's
racing.
Might be worth looking around you a little bit harder ... when you make it. |
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transient ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 21 Aug 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 715 |
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I found it so I'll post, it expands on sargesails maths. A simple chart demonstrating the figures for hypothetical water vehicles travelling with and against tide. Vehicles travel 10 NM against 1 knot of tide. They then turn around and travel 10 NM back with tide to their origin. ![]() |
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Oinks ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 24 Oct 14 Location: Bandol Online Status: Offline Posts: 267 |
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Might be worth looking around you a little bit harder ... when you make it.
I'm there most Sunday's and I can't immediately think of anyone who races regularly and who graduated from racing in Wednesday's personal handicap race. And the notion that that format encourages more people to take part...well I'm fairly certain that years back, before it was personal handicaps, the race attracted similar numbers. One of our annual races used to be a personal handicap pursuit but reverted back to PY as it didn't prove popular. Personal handicapping may have a place - fine for our Weds nights - but I don't see that it has brought any significant numbers of regular sailors to our Sunday racing and I think personal handicapping on any greater scale at the Club would risk damaging a relatively healthy racing scene at BSC and a reputation for being a serious racing club. |
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blaze720 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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Oinks
I think we mostly want the same thing here - more people racing on ANY day of the week. Personal handicap does work at BSC and is proven, there is hardly an imaginable argument that it is not. Now if the challenge is to increase the attractiveness of racing on Sunday, where we can see a growing challenge is the real problem. So what should be proposed for the future is the question ? More of the same, a model that is arguably in decline and
less attractive to newcomers to racing, will not turn things around at BSC or
any other club in the view of a great many. The 'good old days' will not
return any time soon and the sport at club level has to adapt. 'Open'
racing in fleets is still there in abundance for those who want that 'fix' anyway - it is
simply not a case of 'either /or'. Frankly potential 'might be racers' don't worry a jot about 'club reputation' - they want an enjoyable time, sociable company, often family involving, good surroundings and a bit of a sailing based challenge. It is a hobby, past-time and diversion amongst many possible from the daily grind for the majority – some may well become the ‘classic’ Sunday racers as well in time, but you have to put yourself in their shoes to understand why many do not persist beyond the ‘newbie’ or ‘occasional’ stage. Sailing clubs do not have to change ... but those that do will be more likely to survive and prosper. They really can appear less than inclusive or welcoming, despite what any of us might think. Standard racing formats can appear stiff, rigid and ‘newbie’ unfriendly. Nobody is suggesting the abolition of ‘standard’ racing btw ! There are many things clubs can do to encourage – but it might need a few ‘old guard’ ideas being shaken up. CU there ..... on Sunday Mike L. |
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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We found at Hunts that the success to Sunday racing is:
1) Where a class has fleet status get the fleet captains to go around and speak to people, gently badgering them to get their boats out on the water. 2) For PY racing just encourage people out. Let them know that the racing is as much about being out on the water and having a sail as competing to be first. There are always battles to be had throughout the fleet regardless of the relative PYs of a boat. 3) Get the kids out there. They are the future of any sailing club. 4) Hold training sessions and racing clinics, wha seems to stop a few people from racing is the fear of getting it wrong or making an idiot of themself on that water. Just a few ideas.....
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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sargesail ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
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Cool Transient. And of course the real thing to jump out is that it is the displacement speed/planing speed jump that really makes the difference. It explains, for example, why even a moderately well sailed Musto Skiff cleans up on handicap if you don't adjust for tide when racing against 400s and slowers. Especially as both our versions assume a reaching course - that is to say no tacking and no assym angles downwind. When you look at VMG to windard in tide you see when the slwer boats really get killed.
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blaze720 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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Hi Paul So the people are already within the club but many, possibly
the less vocal majority, don't appear to find normal Sunday fleet racing as
attractive as personal pursuits on Wednesday evenings or even Barts Bash. PS - off thread of course so enough said off on this tangent ... but decent breeze forecast for the weekend so mabye we will be back on subject again soon ! |
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