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porkyman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 Oct 14 at 7:58pm
Background info:
Due to lots of floating weed at our lake, some boats have taken to sailing with their rudders not fully down, so weed doesent accumulate on the leading edge so so easily.

The scenario
On a dead run in light wind, i was gaining ground on a boat in front, both on starboard tack, and ended up very close to his transom, whilst I decided which side to pass him. At this point I realised his rudder was not fully down, and was therefore extending his boat length by about a foot !! I didnt touch his `extended rudder`, but it must have been very close.

The question:
If I had touched his rudder, would I have been in the wrong ?, as his rudder was not in the `normal` sailing position.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 14 at 8:03pm
Normal has some shades of meaning...


CASE 91
A boat required to keep clear must keep clear of another boat’s equipment out
of its normal position when the equipment has been out of its normal position
long enough for the equipment to have been seen and avoided
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Posts: 852 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 14 at 9:06pm
Originally posted by JimC

Normal has some shades of meaning...


CASE 91
A boat required to keep clear must keep clear of another boat’s equipment out
of its normal position when the equipment has been out of its normal position
long enough for the equipment to have been seen and avoided


Indeed Jim,
'to have been SEEN and avoided' is the conundrum posed in the OP.
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 14 at 9:13pm
My view, yes you'd be in the wrong. But very unlucky.
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 14 at 12:35pm
Plus there is always the question of class rules so you could counter protest as some classes mandate that the rudder must be fully down at all times (and we all know you cannot vary a class rule using an SI unless you have the written agreement of the class).
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Posts: 1314 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 14 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by jeffers

Plus there is always the question of class rules so you could counter protest as some classes mandate that the rudder must be fully down at all times (and we all know you cannot vary a class rule using an SI unless you have the written agreement of the class).

is that true?  How many laser sailors around the country/ world are racing in laser fleets with a replica sail
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 14 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by Neptune

Originally posted by jeffers

Plus there is always the question of class rules so you could counter protest as some classes mandate that the rudder must be fully down at all times (and we all know you cannot vary a class rule using an SI unless you have the written agreement of the class).

is that true?  How many laser sailors around the country/ world are racing in laser fleets with a replica sail

Yes it is true RRS87.

The replica sail issue can be got around though (as can the rudder rule using the same method).

It does need to ne published in a suitable manner though.


Edited by jeffers - 14 Oct 14 at 2:30pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 14 at 3:03pm
I have commented on raised Laser rudders in the past, when I've been sailing a class where it isn't allowed, too. Now I'm either sailing a Lightning, where you can, or a Firefly, where I can fit the old fashioned swept back blade, it would seem a little churlish to complain - I'll leave it to those with fixed blades!

So, if you hit a raised Laser rudder, you can counter protest and get them thrown out, but if you hit a raised Lightning rudder, you are in the wrong? Does the word "normal" refer to the rudder having been like that for a while, or would "normal" be the class rules?

For me, it would have to be the former, surely, so you'd still be out, even if you also sucessfully protested the Laser.
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 14 at 3:51pm
The Laser would be binned on class rule violation. The fact that there was contact would be irrelevent.

As the rudder is out of position (and was likely to have been such time you are obliged to keep clear.

I would argue that if you are that close to a Laser transom that you are in danger of clipping the rudder then you are not keeping clear anyway as even swept back a little it is very close to the boat.... 

We all remember the BA protest where he got binned for not keeping clear even though there was overhead video evidence that proved the french guy did not deviate and there was no contact.....
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 14 at 11:05pm
Yes that was utterly bizarre though.  Proved by performance that he kept clear!
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