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Null View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by Rupert

The weight reduction in the Supernova class appears to have actually increased sales, so it can work, but will cause pain for a while. On the other hand, I can see it killing a class stone dead if done wrong.

Yes without actively hijacking this thread as well.  I was somewhat surprised to see the changes in the Supernova.  But more surprised to see that the class moved forward significantly since.  You would think making many of the older boats obsolete would put people off.  Yet it appears to be stronger than ever.  Which is a good things i guess.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 12:15pm
I guess "the Hartley effect" was more of a draw than the weight reduction was damaging.  If your boat is to be made obsolete through a class weight reduction, then at least it's nice to be able to buy the upgrade relatively cheaply!  

That's how things seem to have worked in the Wayfarer class where the fleet at opens has changed almost completely since Hartleys took over production.  There's only one of the old regular boats still to be seen, but huge numbers of new ones.

Also, I'm thinking that with the cost of materials these days, reducing the weight could actually help reduce the cost, provided the build didn't become more complicated.
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 12:17pm
Agreed, i think they have done a great job with the class.  That Grey one posted the other day looked great!  Pulled right up to date.  The older ones looked really dated.  The only thing i dont like th elook of is the sail.  But it seems to work so who cares!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 2:52pm
It's a great boat, the only weakness was the foils, they need a lesson in foil making from Devoti. There was a bit of friction when the build went epoxy and lighter and a few people went. It's a shame that it wasn't done at the the time that Phil Morrison redrew the deck mold to the Mk11. The early Mk11,s were apparently difficult to build down to weight so early Giles boats were sort after as they were lighter and when they went epoxy they were able to shave a sensible 12kg off the hull weight so it was a sensible thing to do.

The boats are now being built at the most consistent weight they have ever been done to. The adjustable forestry is a dream power control as it allows a wide sailing range. Whilst I would like to see a blaze style slim carbon mast on it, the boom is the problem as its very long and is heavy so has to be held out downwind far too much. Sail may look a bit odd but works well.

If the blaze got a lighter hull it may have the same affect, but could only be done with strong class support the saving would have to be worthwhile. You could build them all lighter and then add correctors and allow some scope for the class to vote a lighter limit in a few years time, but as soon as you add carbon you add cost. The question is, would it bring new people into the class and give it a longer future

Of course you could design a super blaze with d- one style wings and all carbon , but if you have ever picked up d-one wings they are not at all light because of engineering for the stresses involved. I suspect that together they are maybe 1/3rd or more of the hull weight. The blaze system is simple and light. I suppose you could do something tubular a bit like those hobbies cat seats which would give you the height and not as much additional weight but Eps's, iso's etc all had wing stress problems when new.



Edited by SimonW99 - 01 Oct 14 at 2:53pm
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mongrel View Drop Down
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Posts: 304 		Post Options Post Options   Quote mongrel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

Originally posted by mongrel

I don't own a Blaze so this is easy for me to say, but - I think you should start churning out the lighter Blaze hulls, have a fixed lightweight wing that's comes off easily for transportation, then race all 3 sails off the same line, choose your sail for the conditions. 
The light weight hull, with the Halo sail, in a F3 would go like sh*t off a shiny shovel no matter who's in it!

yes- it's easy to say, would it make you consider buying one though?  

Genuine question.  I know my answer....     
Definately yes!
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 5:52pm
Perhaps a few should try the 'regular' Blaze/Fire/Halo .... first !  Could we make it faster ?  Yes of course we could and there are many many ways to do it. 

But that is not the point really.   You very quickly end up with diminishing returns and very expensive kit, not 'better' racing and higher attendances at meetings.  Want ultimate speed - then go foiling, go Cat racing, go board racing.   If we wanted to make the Blaze 'fast' we have put a spinnaker on it a long time ago  .... but do you today think that would  be the thing to pursue ?

All boats are compromises of cost, ease of handling, compelexity, practicality and the racing following so on ....  But YOU get to choose.

Mike L.
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Posts: 147 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jeepers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 8:05pm
(sic) adjustable forestry is a dream power control

'Leaves' the competition behind does it?

Sorry Simon, couldn't resist that one!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 8:24pm
Blinkin Ipad...

we will be back on Ruperts wooden masts  and it will only be a minute until Graeme arrives with his matches..

Originally posted by Jeepers

(sic) adjustable forestry is a dream power control

'Leaves' the competition behind does it?

Sorry Simon, couldn't resist that one!
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Phil_1193 View Drop Down
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Posts: 78 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil_1193 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 14 at 8:40am
Originally posted by blaze720

Perhaps a few should try the 'regular' .........Halo .... first ! 


Not for want of trying, asked numerous times, would have loved to have a go in one but there isn't one to 'borrow'.

And local sailors aren't happy for a heavyweight to use their normal Blaze with a loaned Halo sail.








Edited by Phil_1193 - 02 Oct 14 at 8:40am
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 14 at 11:05am
This weekend ... for 2 days only !

Blaze Inland Championships at Northampton SC ....  now with extra breeze.  If you have ever wondered why Blaze and can get there for a look come along.  We don't bite (except very occasionally on forums) and pride ourselves in being very open and friendly.  Come and see why we think why size (er ...sorry 'width') is what you really really do need when all the web froth ends, inland as well as on the salty stuff..  Wink

Not officially a Fire/Halo event this year there will still be a few trying out the alternatives so you could get to see all three rigs.  All welcome to kick tyres, watch and join one of the more lively fleets around - both on water and on shore.   

Oh yes - Blazes will be sharing with the Finns as well so the bar may be rather crowded ! 

Mike L.
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