New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: D-Zero
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

D-Zero
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 106107108109110 159>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Steve411 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 09 Sep 08
Location: Cheddar, Somerset, England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 705 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: D-Zero
    Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 8:19am
Originally posted by Simon Lovesey

For what it is worth -  the GPS tracking data puts Dan around 2 minutes behind top RS300 sailor Steve Bolland.  It looks like Dan lost 40 secs by missing the channel mark and returning

I think Dan and Pete (in the Aero) were having a bit of a private battle, too, down one of the reaches, which would potentially have lost them some time. Both boats looked good, accelerated very quickly in the gusts. Dan in the Zero looked a bit quicker, catching up the Aero after the missing mark incident. It was a bit shifty though so cannot draw too many conclusions.
Steve B
RS300 411

RS300 page
Back to Top
Daniel Holman View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 17 Nov 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 8:23am
Simon,
Out of interest, does that include the head start ie he finished a minute ahead after starting a minute behind? Reckon that long stbd tack med breeze fetch was quite 300 friendly. Might perhaps have given him more of a race if ww/lw.
Getting road blocked then luffed by a 40' cat taking a punter for a test sail didn't help much!
Back to Top
Simon Lovesey View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 30 Nov 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 349 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Simon Lovesey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 8:28am
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

Simon,
Out of interest, does that include the head start ie he finished a minute ahead after starting a minute behind? Reckon that long stbd tack med breeze fetch was quite 300 friendly. Might perhaps have given him more of a race if ww/lw.
Getting road blocked then luffed by a 40' cat taking a punter for a test sail didn't help much!

Dan -  I took the actual times at Mark 2.   RS300 was there pretty much at 90 minute race time
www.sailracer.org
Online Sailing Results, GPS Tracking & Event Management
Back to Top
Null View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 May 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 8:59am
Simon,
Any more photographs?  Sounds like some close racing.

Russ
Back to Top
kneewrecker View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 09 Apr 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 9:22am
Originally posted by JimC

If the defining factor of a new class is a handicap number then you're all sad b**tards who need to get a life...

I haven't a clue if you know much I want to agree with that.  It's unbelievably true, but sadly rather idealistic.  

In an ideal world a club around here would be signing 10 of us up.  5 would be enough to join in and create 'fleet racing' within the handicap fleet, but 10 as a minimum really so there's a basis for getting shot of any concern for PY at all.  But that isn't happening- not around here anyway, Grafham is simply too far to travel for a mid-week evening race.   And that's not surprising - singlehanded fleet racing round here is almost exclusively in Lasers and Solos.  

So you are, whether you like it or not, left to the vagaries of PY to achieve any meaningful competitive sailing.  Now I must admit, I have very rarely cruised dinghies- they are for me, a racing device.  Even though I don't purport to be any good, nor do I take it too seriously; I do consider it a sport, not an athletic pastime - like my windsurfing, snowboarding and formerly cycling.  So it's inevitable I will look to the results sheet, even if I tried my very best to disengage with the statistical side of competitive sailing.  

As I've said before, I wonder if in the attempts to create a fairer mathematical playing field, the human element has some how got lost.  I know that if I was mixing it with Supernovas and Laser 8.1s I'd be enjoying the sailing and feel that Zero is living up to my anticipated performance window, but to have that devalued by 1010 vs 1071 and 1044 respectively, seems some how to be killing the joy.  

I don't expect many people to agree with me, and those who might are the silent majority who accept the compromise of racing Lasers and Solos anyway.  Of course, you could try to rely on the fact that the handicap will 'get corrected' in due course.  I just wonder if the shine would wear off before then, so as such, I'm rather glad it's going to be 'on the list' properly before my finances will allow me to reconsider one again.  


Edited by kneewrecker - 22 Sep 14 at 9:29am
Back to Top
Null View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 May 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 9:41am
I am still not sure i understand all of this.  The PYG have not commented on potential EN for any fo the new classes.  The only thing we have reported that is fact, is that the BOC changed both the Zero and Aero PY to 1010 for that event, and we expect something similar for the GL handicaps.  Clubs around the country are now sailing the Zero's on different handicaps many of which are being monitored and changed as per the system.  So what we will see is return data giving a far more real world figure.  Regardless of what comes out, the jewel in the crown is class racing.  I dont doubt this is possible in the *ero's.  They are the correct price point to see established fleets turn their heads.  We had plenty of interest in fleet building in the D1.  However the price prohibbitted large growth at local level (difficult to find 10 people all with £12k to spend at the same time in the middle of an economic downturn)  

I think that both *ero classes will succeed and i am sure they will find their own market area respectively.  They have obviously been 'top trumped' in the same pack, but acually are pretty different boats.  

I cant comment on RS's route to market, but Rodney is quite clearly targeting smaller clubs around the country.  God only knows the ammount of miles the Suntouched team pulled together over the summer.  The Zero fleet is also activated and will be travelling all through the winter to help spread the word.  Perhaps those looking for a PY bandit class or instant fleet racing should wait a while and let others do the hardwork for them.  


i for the first time in years have confidence that the current PY system seems to be making inroads in removing banditry from handicap sailing.  Sure there is an obvious gap in the system in PY allocation for new classes, but i'm sure in the long run something will be sorted.  In the mean time we all just have to sail our shiny new boats until we furnish the group with enough data to draw a more conclusive number.
Back to Top
SUGmeister View Drop Down
Sailwave Moderators
Sailwave Moderators
Avatar

Joined: 08 Jun 07
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 265 		Post Options Post Options   Quote SUGmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 9:44am
Originally posted by Simon Lovesey

Originally posted by Daniel Holman

Simon,
Out of interest, does that include the head start ie he finished a minute ahead after starting a minute behind? Reckon that long stbd tack med breeze fetch was quite 300 friendly. Might perhaps have given him more of a race if ww/lw.
Getting road blocked then luffed by a 40' cat taking a punter for a test sail didn't help much!

Dan -  I took the actual times at Mark 2.   RS300 was there pretty much at 90 minute race time


Would love to be able to see the results, but this is what I get.....
Even trying to use adblock to block some of those elements doesn't clear the screen.
Just saying!
Simon SUGmeister
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 9:45am
Its all about getting the fleet going and ignoring PY for us. We will start with 11-12 boats next spring and hopefully will pull in a few more.

I have no idea where the Great Lakes lot have made their numbers up from or what they have sprinkled on their rice krispies. We will start with 1040 for the aero 9 at the club. Dzero has been sailing off 1050 for the last couple of months and that seems about right. 

Battle of classes saw a couple of races and results pretty meaningless for PY as Dan sailed one and Peter Barton the other, so not your 'average joes'. However, did show hints of what we all surmise in that the Dzero is quick upwind in the light and the aero quick downwind. I suspect that a heavier helm in the 9 upwind would have made the aero slightly faster as it was overpowered at times. Ist race Aero 9 split the zeros, second race 9 finished first, but all shifty and very compromised. Both boats look good though.

Time to ignore PY and talk about the boats again...please. Hug
Back to Top
kneewrecker View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 09 Apr 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 9:48am
Originally posted by Null

I am still not sure i understand all of this.  The PYG have not commented on potential EN for any fo the new classes.  The only thing we have reported that is fact, is that the BOC changed both the Zero and Aero PY to 1010 for that event, and we expect something similar for the GL handicaps.  Clubs around the country are now sailing the Zero's on different handicaps many of which are being monitored and changed as per the system.  So what we will see is return data giving a far more real world figure.  Regardless of what comes out, the jewel in the crown is class racing.  I dont doubt this is possible in the *ero's.  They are the correct price point to see established fleets turn their heads.  We had plenty of interest in fleet building in the D1.  However the price prohibbitted large growth at local level (difficult to find 10 people all with £12k to spend at the same time in the middle of an economic downturn)  

I think that both *ero classes will succeed and i am sure they will find their own market area respectively.  They have obviously been 'top trumped' in the same pack, but acually are pretty different boats.  

I cant comment on RS's route to market, but Rodney is quite clearly targeting smaller clubs around the country.  God only knows the ammount of miles the Suntouched team pulled together over the summer.  The Zero fleet is also activated and will be travelling all through the winter to help spread the word.  Perhaps those looking for a PY bandit class or instant fleet racing should wait a while and let others do the hardwork for them.  


i for the first time in years have confidence that the current PY system seems to be making inroads in removing banditry from handicap sailing.  Sure there is an obvious gap in the system in PY allocation for new classes, but i'm sure in the long run something will be sorted.  In the mean time we all just have to sail our shiny new boats until we furnish the group with enough data to draw a more conclusive number.

nice post- and yes, as I stated earlier, for me I see a silver-lining in leaving it for a while to see how it works out.  

Bit of shame that otherwise early adopters get turned-off because of the PY issue though.  Even if the RYA did offer something up for new classes, it would be fairly meaningless as the GL team are probably going to ride roughshod over it anyway.... and why wouldn't they?  All they are doing is protecting the 99% who are happy with the status quo, some of whom don't want these new boats eating into their established market and potentially devaluing the class in very real terms.




Edited by kneewrecker - 22 Sep 14 at 9:51am
Back to Top
Simon Lovesey View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 30 Nov 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 349 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Simon Lovesey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 14 at 9:53am
Originally posted by Null

Simon,
Any more photographs?  Sounds like some close racing.

Russ
Yes some close racing across all the classes.

Just sorting photos :
www.sailracer.org
Online Sailing Results, GPS Tracking & Event Management
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 106107108109110 159>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy