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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by iGRF

I wonder how Nathan Batchelor is going to enter the Sailjuice series in the new Ovington built VX-One (I saw it at Southampton)without a handicap then, someone must issue it.

I guess they could try using whatever Ullswater gave it as starting point to discussion?  It would be based on fact, not fiction, after all.

Edit: 840 

http://www.ullswateryachtclub.org/Portals/0/RacingResults/Lord%20Birkett%202014.htm


Edited by kneewrecker - 19 Sep 14 at 3:45pm
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Simon Lovesey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Simon Lovesey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

Originally posted by iGRF

I wonder how Nathan Batchelor is going to enter the Sailjuice series in the new Ovington built VX-One (I saw it at Southampton)without a handicap then, someone must issue it.

I guess they could try using whatever Ullswater gave it as starting point to discussion?  It would be based on fact, not fiction, after all.

We also tracked the VX-Ones at Cowes Week where they were given a TCC of 1.012,  so there is some more data available if Nathan chooses to request the VX One to race in some of the Winter Series events, but I know now that not all clubs will be able to accommodate this type of boat.  


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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by L123456

Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by L123456

Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by 2547

Originally posted by Thunder Road

Originally posted by 2547

Originally posted by Bas Edmonds

 
The numbers published by the RYA for each class are offered to the clubs to be able run mixed class racing - 

So what should clubs do with new classes which have no returns to support a figure?

The RYA should issue a temp. figure and adjust later as returns build, just like they have always done. that's why we pay our RYA membership.

Agreed ... so what are the RYA temp figures?

The RYA PY Guidance notes covers this guys. Clubs should allocate a Trial Number (note CLUBS not the RYA, Designer or Manufacturer).


Yeah right; so loads of clubs the length and breadth of the country with no specialist skills have to solve the same problem whilst the governing body staffed with experts sits on its hands ... 

What expert skills are required? I am no expert at all, I simply suggested a single hander with a similar sail area (and one I had sailed extensively in the past so relative performances could be judged) that could be used as a starting point. 

So far it does not look to be too far wrong......

I have also shared my 'suggestion' to members of other clubs who have asked for my opinion. I am not sure what their experiences are so far though.

... and we end up with 100 different PYs all over the UK ... this is a situation screaming for centeralised leadership. That graph Peaky shared a while back seemed a pretty fair predictor ...

Not at all, each club will submit a return detailing the Trial Number they they have used. The RYA (as long as they have the race times via the PYS website) can see the achieved PY for each race and from that they can do their analysis and publish a PY (if they get enough data, I would say they should have enough for an EN by early next year). Plus if your club uploads their results to the PYS websites it will start spitting out a recommended local number for the boat (along with a confidence factor).

The tools/mechanisms are there but people are either unwilling or unable to use them.

I believe most clubs where Zeros are currently racing are either using 1010 (Grafham/Great Lakes PY) or around 1044/1045 (which is the speed the boats designer has consistently indicated that he believes the boat is at, it certainly seems OK for a restricted water inland so far).
Paul
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Null View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 4:18pm
Just for clarity, neither I or other zero owners have moaned about our py.  We are all a relaxed bunch and don't expect to be given a generous number for the sail juice.  How can we have the current vehicle for guesstimating new class pys does not exisist.  If it's 1010 then so be it.  I don't speak for the class when I post, but I was just peeved off to see one new class get nailed and the other not on what seemed and rya document.  It's been cleared up and it's been sorted.  Simples.  The SJ series is a different kettle of fish.  What will be will be, it just can't wait to race I'm a fleet of 20 at the GGP....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 4:27pm
20 at the GGP- that'll certainly be a sight and a half!!!
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 4:45pm
Originally posted by Null

 It's been cleared up and it's been sorted.  


Ha, call that sorting it? All rated faster than a Blaze, better hope Mike doesn't turn up in the light one and get it sailed off 1065. All at the Southampton Boat show in glaring public exposure and alongside Barts bash, do you think anyone will be interested in the slightest about the Zero v Aero outcome of good sailor v good sailor,that troubles the current interested parties, all it has done is to accept a ludicrous rating, which in turn trickles down to what? an Aero 7 at 1015 which must assume the Zero 7 will also have to accept that.

All at the hands of Sailracer who are clearly protectionist of the status quo and existing classes for the sake of their own numbers.

Who'd be a supplier to all this, up there on a stand trying hard to convince folk to buy, whilst out on the water the rest couldn't give a hoot whilst they chuck up as many obstacles as possible to race participation.
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by Null

What will be will be, it just can't wait to race I'm a fleet of 20 at the GGP....

I am planning to be there for the GGP at least over the winter and sailing in a fleet of 20 would be awesome! I humbly reserve 20th place though.....
Paul
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iiitick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 5:18pm
I will stop sailing my Lightning until the PY becomes more advantageous or my performance improves. Which ever comes first....after all it's winning that counts?

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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 5:19pm
better hope Mike doesn't turn up in the light one and get it sailed off 1065 .....

Greame

Goodness me .... No I'm certainly not.  I'm sailing an Icon (btw called 'Trick of the Light') off whatever number is on offer on Sunday with my old mate Andy 'the dancing farmer' ... which will not be easy in terms of the race but that is not the point really.....  but we'll give it a go for kicks.

Yes as you imply we do have something else a bit 'tasty' coming along and no we would not easily get that under anyones radar given its obvious appearance anyway.    When the 'testers' have finished with it, taken their snaps and and pulled their comments together, you are however very welcome to try - even to be one of the very first uninvolved so far. 

Mike L.

(but NO before people start we really are NOT pitching for the 'Fuller shilling'  .... but I'm genuinly interested in what GRF makes of it)


Edited by blaze720 - 19 Sep 14 at 5:20pm
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Simon Lovesey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Simon Lovesey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by iGRF

 
All at the hands of Sailracer who are clearly protectionist of the status quo and existing classes for the sake of their own numbers.

Flattered you think SailRacer has all this power and influence,  but the reality is some way adrift.   We do not issue any handicaps,  but help in the collection of results data and analysis which may assist others.

Last year's article from Andrew Craig will hopefully give an insight into the process for the GJW Direct SailJuice Winter Series.  

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