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L123456 View Drop Down
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Posts: 500 		Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: D-Zero
    Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by L123456

Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by 2547

Originally posted by Thunder Road

Originally posted by 2547

Originally posted by Bas Edmonds

 
The numbers published by the RYA for each class are offered to the clubs to be able run mixed class racing - 

So what should clubs do with new classes which have no returns to support a figure?

The RYA should issue a temp. figure and adjust later as returns build, just like they have always done. that's why we pay our RYA membership.

Agreed ... so what are the RYA temp figures?

The RYA PY Guidance notes covers this guys. Clubs should allocate a Trial Number (note CLUBS not the RYA, Designer or Manufacturer).


Yeah right; so loads of clubs the length and breadth of the country with no specialist skills have to solve the same problem whilst the governing body staffed with experts sits on its hands ... 

What expert skills are required? I am no expert at all, I simply suggested a single hander with a similar sail area (and one I had sailed extensively in the past so relative performances could be judged) that could be used as a starting point. 

So far it does not look to be too far wrong......

I have also shared my 'suggestion' to members of other clubs who have asked for my opinion. I am not sure what their experiences are so far though.

... and we end up with 100 different PYs all over the UK ... this is a situation screaming for centeralised leadership. That graph Peaky shared a while back seemed a pretty fair predictor ...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by iiitick

I must be simple here....well I am simple (unlike most of you). I have seen D Zero, liked it, made an estimate of where it would figure in the performance spectrum, faster than Laser, slower than Supernova. If I was in the market for a new boat I would have ordered one and spent a year or so learning how to sail it by which time a more accurate PY would be sorted out. Simple. If I was dissatisfied with this I would bung the boat on it's trailer and go in search of other D Zero's to race against. I certainly would not cancel my order because some hypothetical initial number had been randomly calculated. At a small club like ours the same sailors usually win and they win on merit not advantageous PY. Our Phantom sailors are grumbling and one of them is considering jumping ship to Nova.....don't do that lad, just sail better!

Is it really worth spending x grand on a new boat in order to beat your mates on a Sunday afternoon prior to the pub? If it is and if you enjoy that boat just get on and enjoy it.


' faster than Laser, slower than Supernova.' Er, both new boats are faster than a Nova which sails off 1070. Lovely boat the Supernova.
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 2:51pm
Not if the rest of the cacophony of dinghies are racing on averagely calculated numbers they don't.... The situation as currently stands is simple- if you are really, really fussed about whatever unofficial number you can get someone to agree to in the short term, DO NOT BUY a newly released dinghy.  

The RYA are the only organisation that could offer a pre-EN, but the question is, should they?  At present the system is 100% based on actual race returns. If they start issuing ENs before they get the data, then all the 'gerrymandering' and commercial bias type accusations start to gain some basis for rational consideration... even if the guys do their level best to remain impartial.

1)Hence the suggestion that new classes accept they are excluded from the chocolates for a while .. at least until there are at least 250+ races being considered.
2) Agree on not buying ANY boat based on its apparent or inital handicap number.... of course !
3) I beg to differ on the RYA being the only org. suited to or capable of developing an alternative number system....  er well lets think ?  GL for a start maybe ?  Their derived approach is already more widely used .. outside of routine club racing that is ... nearly ALL larger handicap events already plus use of the GL numbers is gathering momentum within Summer 'sailing weeks'.  
4) We already have accusations of bias and 'vested interest' thrown around at new class competitors and producers already  .... So the assessments  of some individual and organisations is OK to knock ?  ... yet our 'national authority' still seems disinterested and is 'above it all' even when still proposing numbers based on minute sample sizes ?  Oh yes do remember the CA's do pay for that service as well btw.. you don't get an EN without RYA affiliation and you get NOTHING prior to that not even relevent guidance or involvement - or in my experience even replies to reasonable email queries or phone messages left. 

The GL handicappers and Sailjuice in contrast gave us something to try early on and were always very supportive - not because we paid anything more than regular entry fees - but because they want to see the Sailjuice events grow and to ensure good quality racing.   If you have not raced under this sytem by now .. get out there this winter !

Mike L.


Edited by blaze720 - 19 Sep 14 at 2:53pm
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by blaze720

If you have not raced under this sytem by now .. get out there this winter !

Mike L.

at present  my current sail racing toy is not welcome at most of the SJ series iirc... Draycote Dash is the only only exception I think.
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Simon Lovesey View Drop Down
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Posts: 349 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Simon Lovesey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

Originally posted by blaze720

If you have not raced under this sytem by now .. get out there this winter !

Mike L.

at present  my current sail racing toy is not welcome at most of the SJ series iirc... Draycote Dash is the only only exception I think.

James -  and what is your latest toy ?

Dates for GJW Direct SailJuice Winter Series Launched yesterday at Boat Show,  with online entry opening early October when eligibility of classes will be confirmed 
www.sailracer.org
Online Sailing Results, GPS Tracking & Event Management
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 3:19pm
it's a Kona Windsurfer mate, but to be fair don't go to any effort to include it for me... if I had the free time for winter sailing this winter I'd be bleating like a bitch about my 'heinous' D-Zero GL handicap like the rest of them...

... or alternatively taking the pragmatic view and hoping to meet a Rooster 8.1, some RS Aeros and fellow D-Zero sailors to have a good shakedown race with.  

edit: for any google searches that find this post in the future, my old Kona One ran of 1080, which was damn hard to sail to as a complete muppet windsurfer.


Edited by kneewrecker - 19 Sep 14 at 3:21pm
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gordon1277 View Drop Down
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Posts: 665 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 3:25pm
Having read a lot of this and looking back on how wonderful the 100 was going to be then someone now thinks its awful because he could not sail it Rodney should be singing from the hilltops and cuddling Mr Fullers non refundable deposit.
Cancelling a boat when it ready for collecting is in my opinion dreadful and in his business I am sure he would be very unhappy if someone had ordered a £5k item and cancelled it in the same way.
Gordon
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 3:30pm
Fortunately Rodney will find someone further down the list who has just had his or her Friday afternoon blues very much lifted.... 
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 3:34pm
I wonder how Nathan Batchelor is going to enter the Sailjuice series in the new Ovington built VX-One (I saw it at Southampton)without a handicap then, someone must issue it.

Meanwhile this caption competition and the phrase 'Gerrymandering what does that mean?'



Spring to mind.

Gordon I offered the obvious, either postpone or I'll buy then sell it, before it devalues further being the logic that is no sleight on the boat which remains an excellent craft, I am not however going to be a victim of this pathetic system nor part in furthering it maybe I'll buy a minisail and gun belt instead.

Edited by iGRF - 19 Sep 14 at 3:35pm
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getafix View Drop Down
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 3:34pm
oh dear, IMPO, if we all raced the boats we have to just win stuff at our clubs, what a boring sad little place this would be.... like the fanboy posting and sl*gging off other classes, these boards need a bit of shakeup, it's supposed to be "dinghy development".  

I suppose one could argue GRF's cancellation is a development for the DZero, but probably, given the RS100 "history" one in which Rodney is now smiling very broadly and pleased to not be getting drawn into online debates about how "failed the design is because so-and-so with a xxxxx at my club still beats me".

I'd rather hear from new Zero owners about how they're finding the boat, it's design and racing it than reading off-piste rants about the PY system (done to death already IMO elsewhere).  How does it point, what's it like turning corners, are you sprightly and fresh after a long beat, or utterly shagged-out and happy to just let go the main and slump in the bottom?
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