D-Zero

Speaking completely personally.
A purist point of view would be that without observed performance it's absurd to issue corrected times. So for classes where a club has no satisfactory handicap perhaps the purist would say the best thing is to only publish elapsed times for those boats, and no corrected times or placings.

Originally posted by iGRF Originally posted by Punky The RYA is the national authority charged with running dinghy sailing in all its forms.  It needs to stand up and be counted.  I don't care if it gets an initial estimate wrong, because they can issue new guidance when evidence shows they are wrong.  But someone has to make the initial estimate and the RYA are based placed to do that - to wash it's hands and say "not our problem" is a deriliction of duty IMO.

But if they issue a trial number and then the evidence says it is wrong, people like grumph , who only appear to buy a boat if they think the yardstick is favorable, will then jump up and down saying "you can't change the number, my boat hasn't got any faster", with absolutely no regard for the fact that the guessed number will be wrong in the 1st place. If the number is too low, and the PYAG put it up, they will find something else to whinge about - maybe that they bought a boat expecting it to be faster than a so and so, because the number said so, and now it doesn't, and IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT!

Now, if there weren't prats around with no willingness to understand the system, then possibly the RYA could get involved in setting a trail number, maybe off the results of something like the Battle of the Classes. Meanwhile, clubs will just have to do what they have always done, and see how boats do on the water. The RYA has never set numbers on no data at all.

Originally posted by Null Originally posted by iGRF Originally posted by kneewrecker If RS has any influence over the Aero retaining the 1040 whilst the D-Zero gets a cobbling down the ranks, then I think that reflects incredibly badly on them. They (RS) almost certainly have had no hand in that, I'd been chatting to Martin that very morning and they were concerned more at the drubbing they'd had at all you Zero fanbois and feeling upset by it all given they've not exactly pointed out all the faults of the Zero in the way the reverse has been the case. Graeme that's absolute bull sh*t!  No one has drubbed the boat, there has just been talk over the merits and pitfalls of both!  They 'RS' had a drubbing from me and others over how they marketed the boat.  I have questioned some of their decisions around the build, but frankly why wouldn't I?  I am a paying consumer after all! There have been claims in marketing about Big Ben Ainsle that were retracted, boat tests done by the now class manager, turning up to competitors demo days, selling a product that weighs 42kg all up as lift able.  They (RS) didn't need to do any of that, it did them no favours, just made what is the most professional outfit in this industry look like it is run by amateurs.  They could of just sold the boat for what it is, please don't start playing a small violin because you have some hidden agenda as to you real change of buying choice!  The only facts we have available are: 1) Some Bozo has made up a PY for a handicap one off event, using an RYA system.  The NUMBER IS NOT RATIFIED 2) You spoke with the MD of RS yesterday, then decided to cancel you order with their direct competitors product......

Originally posted by Punky Originally posted by JimC   The PYAG folk have more sense than to get in the fools game of guessing what handicaps might be for new classes.   So who should make that guess estimate in your view?    The manufacturer (who will be perceived as having no particular incentive to suggest an accurate one) or race organisers (which will lead to inconsistencies and cries of "how should we know"?)?   The RYA is the national authority charged with running dinghy sailing in all its forms.  It needs to stand up and be counted.  I don't care if it gets an initial estimate wrong, because they can issue new guidance when evidence shows they are wrong.  But someone has to make the initial estimate and the RYA are based placed to do that - to wash it's hands and say "not our problem" is a deriliction of duty IMO.

Originally posted by Punky Originally posted by JimC   The PYAG folk have more sense than to get in the fools game of guessing what handicaps might be for new classes.   So who should make that guess estimate in your view?    The manufacturer (who will be perceived as having no particular incentive to suggest an accurate one) or race organisers (which will lead to inconsistencies and cries of "how should we know"?)?   The RYA is the national authority charged with running dinghy sailing in all its forms.  It needs to stand up and be counted.  I don't care if it gets an initial estimate wrong, because they can issue new guidance when evidence shows they are wrong.  But someone has to make the initial estimate and the RYA are based placed to do that - to wash it's hands and say "not our problem" is a deriliction of duty IMO.