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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Scoring
    Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 6:47am
Originally posted by Ian29937

But imagine the 4th was as a result of an inexperienced sailor taking him out at the start resulting in a capsize.  Try as hard as he could, he only managed to recover to 4th despite sailing much faster than anyone else in the fleet.  Is it fair that the overall result should be impacted by this race result in any way?  Isn’t it fairer that sailors are able to completely discard a defined number of results to ensure that chance events don’t decide which sailor wins?


Indeed. But not just the inexperienced. Stuff happens.

At a laser open earlier this year, I was looking good for first or second at the first mark when the boat the leeward capsizes to windward and lays his mast across my foredeck. By the time we sort things out, we are pretty much last - 20 plus places lost. Without a discard, happenings like that will result in protests intended only to obtain redress and average points. Meantime, everyone is hanging about waiting for the prize-giving, or they just go home, neither of which is desirable.
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 5:33pm
Like Rupert, I can't see anything to get all twisted up about. 

I would happily accept the situation whichever party's place I found myself in.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 5:17pm
So long as everyone knows the system before racing kicks off, I'm not sure it matters that much. You could probably find more results for those 2 helms where the opposite has happened, and that would apply to most of us, I'd think. I know I got lucky at the Lightning Nats being able to discard a 13th!
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Ian29937 View Drop Down
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Posts: 409 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 9:41am

But imagine the 4th was as a result of an inexperienced sailor taking him out at the start resulting in a capsize.  Try as hard as he could, he only managed to recover to 4th despite sailing much faster than anyone else in the fleet.  Is it fair that the overall result should be impacted by this race result in any way?  Isn’t it fairer that sailors are able to completely discard a defined number of results to ensure that chance events don’t decide which sailor wins?
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Andy K View Drop Down
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Posts: 5 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Andy K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 8:57am
As I understand it, a competition should be won by the skipper with the best scores.
I don't really care about the current SI's
The guy with the best scores didn't win.
OK, all skippers knew the regs.regarding the race, but someone, somewhere, in time gone past, has tweaked these regs. And now it is as though it they set in stone.
They are not, and I still think that the wrong skipper won!!!!
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gordon View Drop Down
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 9:04pm
Some events don't have discards - the Dragon Gold Cup never has, for instance.
Gordon
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Ian29937 View Drop Down
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Posts: 409 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 5:38pm
Why do we have discards in the first place? - My understanding was that it allowed for exceptional circumstances not to spoil someones event as a DNF/DNS can have a significant effect on a series result
e.g. If someone has an unexpected boat breakage or a delay in arriving at an event due to breakdown, accident etc or for longer series, personal reasons for not attending a number of races.
If you accept that these are reasonable exclusions, it seems logical that everyone should be able to discard the same number of races and that these should not be included in any count backs etc
Ian
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 4:33pm
Yep. the current fashion in scoring systems is that an excluded race is completely excluded and isn't used as a tiebreak. You can make arguments both ways. In this case it made for a more exciting last race I think.
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by jeffers

I seem to recall that you can modify how you do countback from the 'standard' most 1sts, most 2nds, Last race both boats sailed.

The problem here (such as it is) is not with the tie-breaker rules in Appendix A but with the 'number of races required for a drop' setting in the SI.

But 4 completed races for a drop in a 6 or 7 race series is pretty conventional.
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by Ian29937

This was scored as per standard.  The 4th was an excluded score so isn't included in the countback.
 
They tied on results
They had the same scores on countback (1,1,2)
The boat which won the last race won.
 

You are correct indeed correct!
Paul
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