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Is the Cadet finished?

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ohFFsake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is the Cadet finished?
    Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 1:11pm
*can open, worms everywhere*

Looking at this suggested list of requirements, the Mirror actually shapes up pretty well.

The MK3s are pretty durable, light enough for 2 small kids to launch and recover, stable enough to inspire confidence in nervous learners, can be sailed with an adult if required and have self bailers and good built in tanks.

Boat speed is always going to be a trade-off in any boat that is small and stable. That said, modern Mirrors are something of a handicap bandit - perhaps due to the number of old gaff-rigged ones still around skewing the returns - and in reality sail around the course at about the same speed as a Topper and often keep up with Fevas, particularly on inland waters where their conventional spinnaker is more usable.


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Ian29937 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 1:25pm
Does nobody buy the Feva S these days?  Smaller Dacron main version ......
 
Seems to fit the spec with an easy upgrade to the Feva XL Race when the time is right.
 
Ian
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by Ian29937

Does nobody buy the Feva S these days?  Smaller Dacron main version ......

I guess if they don't then it'll bounce back in due course.... last time I saw an RS press release it was saying that dacron was the future or something.  LOL
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 1:46pm
At our Junior group we use the dacron sails for teaching, and then when they start racing they can start to use the bigger sail if they want to. Works pretty well.


Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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getafix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by ohFFsake

*can open, worms everywhere*

Looking at this suggested list of requirements, the Mirror actually shapes up pretty well.

The MK3s are pretty durable, light enough for 2 small kids to launch and recover, stable enough to inspire confidence in nervous learners, can be sailed with an adult if required and have self bailers and good built in tanks.

Boat speed is always going to be a trade-off in any boat that is small and stable. That said, modern Mirrors are something of a handicap bandit - perhaps due to the number of old gaff-rigged ones still around skewing the returns - and in reality sail around the course at about the same speed as a Topper and often keep up with Fevas, particularly on inland waters where their conventional spinnaker is more usable.



Totally agree that mk3 Mirrors are well sorted for what they are, can't think of a duff Winder boat and I've enjoyed outings in MRs, Fireball and Mirrors.  There's a great 'ecosystem' of suppliers for rig and sail parts and I'm sure foils and accessories.  The CAs seem very well organised.

Don't like dagger boards and coastal sailing much.  Centreboard would be much better, IMO.

They've always been handicap bandits - trying getting far enough away from a well sailed one on a short course! Gaff or no gaff.  But well sailed is critical.
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Riv View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 9:57pm
For good reasons this forum tends to focus on the hardware, it's simple to talk about, we have used it and abused it and sold it, put our kids in it.

We think about a replacemrnt for the Mirror or Cadet or other boat

A boat is much more than a piece of nicely shaped plastic or wood,  it carries with it a whole universe of experience, hopes and dreams.

So it would be better if instead of thinking about replacement boats we all thought about the "experience" that sailors will have:

Where it will be used, who will use it, what the ethos of the boat would be, what the class management structure should be, what the financing options would be, how should it be built (not material but small batch, large batch, imported, UK built etc) and lots lots more.

Boats like the Mirror and Cadet make me smile when I think of them. I remember good times. Good races and sunshine, kids camping with Mirrors and cartopping. Over the years they have developed their ethos, their style and management structures.

If we decide that a new boat is needed it will just fall by the wayside unless all the social, economic and environmental issues are discussed first and used to inform the design.

I'm not interested in replacing either, I've sailed Fevas as well and understand why people like them. There is room for all of them.

However,  if we are going to discuss any of the above maybe staring with the finance issue would be interesting.

How should a new boat be introduced?

Large manufacturer, subsidies, low interest loans, buy backs?

Small manufacturer, subsidied by by the RYA, they have 9.3million from Sport England Smile!!

Home built?

How amy other finance and building options can we think of?

Any one have any experince of interesting finance options in other areas?








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fab100 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 11:08pm
Originally posted by getafix

 
They've always been handicap bandits - trying getting far enough away from a well sailed one on a short course! Gaff or no gaff.  But well sailed is critical.

Still got the Mirror my bro-in-law sailed to win the Juniors in the 70s hanging in the garage. Perhaps I should get it out? Shame that I'd need a crew under 4 stone now tho, although I used to love 3-sail surfing mine single handed in the harbour mouth in a windy easterly.

Happy days - lots of us chose to sail them as well as Larks when we were students - top sailors, great racing, great socials. Oh and Mirrors were how I met my wife.

I'm sure there are lots of people that feel the same about Cadets - certainly the kids at our place get some great coaching and turn into fab sailors as a result. I don't see they'd get any more from a Feva or anything else ephemerally trendy designed by us old farts on a forum - to believe so is both arrogant and missing the point IMHO. Cadets, Mirrors, Oppies et al teach them to boat-handle and race not just hoon up and down looking for velocity-induced adrenaline.

Just don't get me going about squads
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 14 at 9:27am
I was unfortunate that I didn't get into sailing until I was 18 and dinghies until my mid twenties so missed a child hood of Mirrors and Cadets and Lasers (obviously sailed a Laser since and a Mirror once). It's great seeing the kids out on the Marine Lake in mainly Cadets on a Friday evening at West Kirby. Using (and learning to bag, rather than chute) a symmetric kite. Tactically jostling for position.

Speed is irrelevant if you are all pretty much in the same boat. The Cadet, and Mirror are probably far from thrill rides in most conditions however they are easy to handle, pretty well behaved and give the kids time to think, get their heads out of the boat and build up the tactical/gust awareness rather than hanging on by their toenails and spending most of their time trying to control the rig. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 14 at 9:39am
Originally posted by Riv

Any one have any experince of interesting finance options in other areas?


Well funnily enough there's a guy I came into contact with in the bike game, leasing them, so he buys from the supplier (on a very keen margin) then leases them for a couple of years, then takes them back (they can then lease a new one) recovers his cost by selling the bike secondhand (hence requiring boutique desirable models)and profits from the lease payments.

This could work with desirable boats, like the Aero and Zero, or anything four or five grand plus that will hold it's money, I've no idea what cadets, mirrors, oppi's cost even but you don't see finance deals in the dinghy market, least not that I've noticed, I think if it were me marketing them I'd try and get something in place.
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ohFFsake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 14 at 9:52am
Mirrors cost about £5K new and fetch the same when 1-2 years old
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