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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: D-Zero
    Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 9:53am
We had this debate for ten miles downwind watching the two other boats obviously doing whatever they were doing better than us, kicker on/off it didn't seem to improve our speed, only the rocking and rolling intensified if it was on too far.

It is still very very annoying not knowing what you did wrong, it's driving me mad.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 10:20am
Rocking and rolling was considered quick in Lasers at one time, at least. Probably a pumping effect as much as anything - the heeling must increase the drag but nonetheless.

Kicker off, forward mast rake all considered to promote speed on the run, but a local Wayfarer rival always seems to leave his on... and goes just as quick, dammit. I really don't know anymore.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 10:28am
Well with the kicker off, the boom lifts up the leech degrades, if your kite were doing that you wouldn't be happy would you? So my logic was to at least keep enough on not to let the boom lift too high, but maybe that had some other slowing effect. It could also have been the flushing strip, some weed trapped in it, we'll never really know unless we go class racing again, but then there were the other factors, different masts, different sail manufacturers.

So much of my experience downwind has been either kite driven or a single hander boat and I know roughly what to do now and rarely if ever lose ground, so I am really really annoyed that I can't work it out.

Edited by iGRF - 04 Sep 14 at 10:29am
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 10:47am
"let the kicker off" means so many different things to different people. My basic thing in the Lightning is that the further off wind I am, the more the kicker goes off - if the wind shifts in front, the 2nd thing I do after pulling the main in is pull a little kicker on. This is partly because on most boats, as the boom goes out the kicker actually gets tighter, but mainly to control the leech, which will hook on a reach in light winds and leave you going nowhere. How much of any of this will depend on wind strength, obviously.

In the Firefly, on the other hand, unless it is blowing old boots and the kicker is on very hard upwind, it barely gets adjusted at all - maybe a little just to get the leech right on a reach.

Every boat is different. After all, in a Europe you do it all arse about face and let it off upwind. Or you did when I was sailing them, but fashions can change.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 10:54am
I really f*cked up in the RS100 with the kicker in the early days.... I'd pull it on a bit to power the main up when reaching with the kite, but forget to let it off through the gybe.... SPLOSH!


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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 10:59am
Sounds like a new thread all of it's own, what to do with kicker with which boat, wouldn't that be useful?
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Null View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 11:04am
Its different in every boat Graeme, so in Y&Y forum style it would shoot off topic all over the place.  I cant comment on the Icon having not sailed one, but i am guessing you would require enough kicker to stop the boom skying and the top of the main spilling open in gusts, as this would cause instability
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getafix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 11:27am
A good bit of twist at the top (i.e. enough kicker to enable that without your boom "floating") is what I try and aim for.  The right amount of kicker to achieve this has a fair bit to do with sail cut / leech length (or stretch in the case of L*sers).  A streamer on the end of the top batten (or two top battens) has been my first addition to any sail that hasn't had them already for many years as it needs adjustment and is also influenced by outhaul and cunningham tension (if you can't let these off easily or even adjust them at all).  

In a nutshell, for me its far less relevant to look at how much kicker tension someone has than the shape of their sail(s) at any given time.


Edited by getafix - 04 Sep 14 at 11:31am
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 11:42am
Originally posted by getafix



In a nutshell, for me its far less relevant to look at how much kicker tension someone has than the shape of their sail(s) at any given time.


Cause and effect, that, really. It makes more sense to me to look at the effect than the cause, but if learning how to control the leech still, then it is necessary to look at what is happening inside the boat.
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Washy71 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Washy71 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 1:37pm
Possible D-Zero smaller rig scoop?

Arrived early for Wednesday night sailing last night and saw these two out on the water. Grabbed a rib and took a couple of pics. Blue sail had less foot length and visibly shorter mast too.




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