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Fair Play?

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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fair Play?
    Posted: 03 Sep 14 at 11:39am
RS keep some stock, assuming you are not ordering the next new thing, in which case, a waiting list serves well to keep the hype alive.

As for Solos- they are available in white, off the shelf from P&B and Sailboats.  If you cut them out the supply chain and go direct to builder, expect to wait a bit to fit in with the standing orders.  I believe P&B also have a Phantom in stock currently, although I waited 8 weeks for mine due to the orderly queue formed at Ovingtons a few years back, they're less popular now perhaps.

Lasers are available off the shop floor in Northhampton- and in Costco southampton certain times of year for £2500... bargain.

I'm not sure on Devoti- I assume built to order, a Finn is so custom specific anyway.  The D-Zero has a nice lead-time nowadays too.

As for buying cars, trying factory ordering an Audi- they'll do everything they can to dissuade you and buy from UK stocks.  Same with BMW last time I tried to get one.  In the end I gave up and bought an ex-demonstrator... which is exactly what they want you to do.  
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 14 at 11:25am
Colour? If you want it now, it is grey. Most people seem to want it anyway, so they can cheat on the start line and not get caught. Fit out? Have the hull there, do the fit out after the order comes in, ship it out 48 hours later. OK, if you get more orders than you have boats in stock, then there must be a delay, and I'd not expect a tiny company to have more than 1 ready to buy, but Laser, RS, Topper, Hartleys? Maybe they do?

If I go to Argos, I can get pretty much anything 5 minutes after I order it. I avoid places like DFS who seem to think ordering in sept and getting it by Christmas is somehow a fast turnaround. A good reason for buying 2nd hand. I go see it, inspect it, take it home if I like it. Simple.


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Noah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 14 at 10:44am
Any significant purchase these days is normally build-to-order, unless you want to buy what's in the showroom. If you buy a car it can be configured in all sorts of different ways - not least the colour! Stock was taken out of the furniture supply chain years ago because of the costs involved in holding it. Some of the 'sheds' are moving back to a quicker delivery timeframe, but whether this is because they can make it quicker or they're holding stock somewhere I don't know. Boats are not - necessarily - standard fit-out. Most OD (not SMOD) are build-to-order because customers want to choose the hull/deck colour, fittings layout and supplier, etc, etc, etc. The things are just too big to hold stock. Rooster tried to resolve this with the 'nesting' hulls and decks idea making good use of container space to ship from a cheap manufacturing location but look where that went. He's a savvy businessman, so the fact that it was never brought to market indicates to me that there was no market for it - or at least not a big enough one to make it worthwhile.
Nick
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 14 at 10:25am
You can't buy anything worth having without waiting a lifetime, well at least well past the point that the impulse purchase decision is well faded and been replaced by white goods, furniture or other unnecessary domestic considerations weigh in.

On another tack, getting back to the handicap discussion that kicked this off have any of you ever had a good luck at This obviously being French they're totally wrong and we brits are right, but it does make some interesting reading.. Haven't managed to find any planchistes yet, but I keep looking.

Edited by iGRF - 03 Sep 14 at 10:26am
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 14 at 10:07am
Clywedog seem to run a scheme (I was reading about it on their notice board, so no 1st hand knowledge) where you can hire a boat for x length of time (3, 3 month hire periods, I think)with the option to buy at the end. Can't remember the ins and outs, but I think it was £100 a month, and if you didn't want it, the next person would do the same but owe £300 less at the end if THEY wanted to buy it. Might have got that a little wrong, but something along those lines.

Quite agree that it is odd that you can't buy many (any?) boats off the shelf new. I'd expect to wait if getting a hand crafted Solo, but not if buying a standard FRP one - not more than the time it tales to fit it out, anyway. Is this the case? Only using Solos because they are popular, but have a choice of builders and methods.

Can you buy a boat from RS with no waiting, apart from the small rotomoulds?
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 14 at 9:54am
Originally posted by winging it

This is why clubs should provide more boats for hire.  It certainly has proved its worth at Hunts.

which is great if you've got some 'mug' willing to maintain them for free  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 14 at 9:51am
This is why clubs should provide more boats for hire.  It certainly has proved its worth at Hunts.
the same, but different...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 14 at 9:21am
A bit late to talk about banning pumping when our Knighted Gold Medallist got there by pumping better than everyone else.
It's not easy on a dinghy, nor as effective as a sailboard because you can't 'stir' the rig to ensure constant airflow, the action is 'in' then wait then 'in' again obviously with a sit down rock to aid the 'in' stroke, whereas on a board as well as the in out movement, you can scoop fill, row, scoop fill row, then there is side to side row- gybe-row dead down wind, I wish I could have figured how to do it on that Icon down wind on saturday.

These aren't issues preventing access to the sport, the biggest preventer is lack of product sales points and training adults to use them, we have two new members both want boats and if someone doesn't close a deal with them before the summers over that'll be it we'll lose them.

Boats should have a margin to enable dealers to profit by their sale, which means you lot should pay more for them, like that's ever going to happen, so it then falls to clubs to muddle along trying to attract members, fighting the weather, trying to explain about the boat they used at Club Mark Warner and why they won't be able to lift it.

Or here's a wild idea, you incentivise clubs to 'sell' boats and bits it could be done online as part of an affiliate scheme, but there needs to be finance packages, 0% deals, trade ins, all the paraphanalia of modern retailing if you want more numbers and you've got to stop this stupid infatuation with old dross and wood, out here in the real world y'all look like eccentric anachronisms, or stay as you are and quit wondering why you're a dying breed.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 14 at 8:53am
the 420s changed  the rules not many years ago to allow pumping in over 13kts

Yes and I believe the Finns do something similar on occasion.  It is the thin edge of the wedge this sort of stuff.....  eventually you get sail designs that 'pump' better than regular sails and so on and 'brawn' becomes more important than 'brain' when racing pretty quickly.  After mid30's forget it. 

Don't get me wrong as you need to be fit anyway but 'air rowing' is surely not what this sort is about.... with respect if you like that sort of thing then why not do it for real ... 'proper rowing' that is with oars.  A great sport in itself but not what 'sailing' is really about is it !?

Just think about it .. a 'starboard' boat hails you and speeds up their pumping to push the point home... and the next word is of course 'protest'  -  the future ?  Yes be very careful what you wish for .. and vote for.

Mike L.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Simon Lovesey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 14 at 7:18am
Originally posted by Chris 249

Originally posted by blaze720

When they went for 'unlimited pumping' ... yes turkeys really can vote for Christmas.  It killed longboard racing in the UK so be careful what you go for ....

The pity ands frankly shame was the national  'authorities' - (UKBSA at the time and RYA)  could not see the logic that would ultimately lead to the effective demise of the sport as a 'mass activity' that had introduced so many into small craft racing.  In the day it could be run alongside regular dinghy racing at most clubs - it was seldem the clubs that got snooty about boards despite what you might here occasionally - it was the  morons who undermined the sport through not appreciating what they already had.

Fools and their sport are soon parted .. perhaps.

Yes I know it is a bit harsh - but heck it could have been so much better ..... Maybe a lack of clear vision was the problem.  The moment dinghy racing allows something along the same lines  - that it ... you  should run for the hills or maybe get a lead mine. 

Mike L.

Well said.


Yes some excellent points,  the sport should be doing all it can to get more afloat,  but most of the data points to falling participation.

Allowing pumping in dinghy racing is spreading,  the 420s changed  the rules not many years ago to allow pumping in over 13kts,  little evidence of an increase in participation numbers,  quite the reverse.


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