New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Fair Play?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Fair Play?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 10>
Author
rb_stretch View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 23 Aug 10
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 742
Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fair Play?
    Posted: 02 Sep 14 at 7:22pm
I used to race longboards and short boards back in the late 80s and the problem I identified was that you just could not race effectively unless you pumped liked crazy. In the UK this happened a lot because conditions were often marginal and pumping made a significant difference if you got planing quicker, got clean air etc. Just the starts where enough to wear most people out. So IMHO the necessary pumping is one of the reasons why board racing has never really taken off.

Div II boards did appeal to me as a lot less pumping seemed to go on, but unfortunately they had already died by the time I was thinking about racing them. Wonder if they could ever make a comeback.




Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 14 at 3:47pm
Probably a bit of both, Grumph - no boat is a bandit if sailed really badly, but there may be a bit of flattery in there, too.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499
Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 14 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

 What were you doing?


Coming 9th in the fast handicap in a boat I'd stepped into for the first time only two weeks ago, with a crew I've sailed with once before, in a gusty force 5 to 6 over a 40 mile marathon, beating people who have spent years in these things, I'm not unhappy about that and even happier I appear to still be improving at something, at a time of life where most folk are deteriorating.

Or the Icon is a Bandit.

It's one of those two.
Back to Top
Medway Maniac View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2788
Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 14 at 1:24pm
No beam to speak of, tin rig, shorter than an Icon. And on a run, a kite doesn't make that much odds - five minutes, maybe.  What were you doing?
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499
Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 14 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Talking of fair play, sailor of the day award should have gone to that Chipstead Scorpion2005. Not the easiest ride in those conditions by any means. Quicker round the course than Grumph's Icon and with a dagger rudder.
4th overall (no prize), she had to make do with the consolation 'Ladies' prize.

A Scorpion is a good sea boat and correct me here but I'm sure they have a kite and a centreboard an excellent boat for that event. A kite would have taken half an hour out of our time maybe more never mind the two minutes they had and at 1042 for a three sail everyone knows they're worse bandits than Merlins, they're just sailed by vegetarians and tree huggers hence the smaller numbers than the alco's in the Merlin class.
Neither was she first female helm, Genna was, chiselling banditry as we come to expect from dinghy sailors, I'm surprised you didn't enter a Laser 3k with full North rigout, that's your usual style isn't it?

Edited by iGRF - 02 Sep 14 at 1:48pm
Back to Top
Medway Maniac View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2788
Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 14 at 1:01pm
Talking of fair play, sailor of the day award should have gone to that Chipstead Scorpion2005. Not the easiest ride in those conditions by any means. Quicker round the course than Grumph's Icon and with a dagger rudder.

4th overall (no prize), she had to make do with the consolation 'Ladies' prize.
Back to Top
kneewrecker View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 09 Apr 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1586
Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 14 at 12:59pm
I agree it's a 100% cultural Chris- having essentially learned to windsurf inland I am amazed at the learning curve I've been through when it comes to kit choice.  I don't think there was anyone else (adult) who regularly sailed a daggerboarded plank....  they'd rather stand around in the shallows, thumbs in their armpits waiting for a 'gust' to get their +20L freeride or freestyle board moving.  If folks only have shortboard kit, then it's no surprise there is little interest in course racing... 
Back to Top
Chris 249 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2041
Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 14 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

 For whatever reason there simply isn't demand from windsurfers to take up racing anymore- not within the infrastructure of a dinghy club anyway. 

That may just be a cultural/geographical issue rather than something that relates to the type of craft. Lots of our windsurfer racing is based at dinghy clubs, and there is a very big mix of sailors between the two types.

I'm not saying this way is better, merely that is is a possibility.


Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499
Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 14 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

The local IC has given up and gone cruising, the other one used to come mostly to race him.  Perfect boats for a round course, with lots of non-kite off-wind legs (as are Tasars and Icons, of course, plus all the una rigs)
I just recall the hassle of rigging on the day in a queue along the road, then having to park your trailer miles away, and de-rigging is a crowded affair too, unless numbers have dropped off a lot.  Last time I did it I took the boat down and rigged it the previous day.  To make all that worthwhile it has to be perfect conditions wind and tide-wise.  
This year we'd have had real problems with the daggerboard; an 800 would have been a nightmare too.  Even the Alto pairing claimed that their centreboard was half its original length by the time they'd sailed up the Swale...

That's because almost every boat we saw upwind worked the wind and headed to flat water rather than work the middle and stick in the channel where the tide was greatest, and it was choppy with overfalls, although I can't imagine the Alto not spotting that if he/she sails up your river. We only touched once down the bottom and that was because I tried to smart arse around the back of a rescue boat, you could see the water was confused so there would be an obstruction under it. I paid for it upwind with weather helm because the rudder got knocked back.

Edited by iGRF - 02 Sep 14 at 12:39pm
Back to Top
Chris 249 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2041
Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 14 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Originally posted by iGRF

It's a number assigned to a craft, what possible harm could it do? 

Is it fair play that a 'craft' should win just because of the wind strength and almost without regard to skill level?

Nobody pretends that the PY system is entirely fair, but it does us for weekly racing among not too dissimilar 'craft'.  For that reason we split our fast trap boats off from our slower hikers into Fast and Medium handicap fleets.

We do have all-comers races, but if it's a F.3-4 I'd have to sail very badly in the V3k to be beaten by my Wayfarer mate. Equally, he'd have to sail terribly to be beaten by me in a F2-3.  We can put up with that for the odd race for novelty's sake, and some races are F2-4, then it's anybody's depending upon if and when they get the gusts.

But the difference between boards (and foilers) and dinghies is just too great.  If it's less than planing/foiling, the boards and foilers might just as well stay ashore.  Vice versa in planing foiling conditions.

Does IOSSC really want some potential dinghy competitors to look at Wind Guru (I prefer XC Weather actually) and think "no, it's a board day, we won't get a look in", or boardies to say 'we'll get slaughtered unless we plane, we'll stay on the beach'?  I know we should sail round the island for the joy of it, but...

Give everyone their own trophies and let them race separately.

It's all a matter of degree, and something that varies enormously from club to club, isn't it? There are clubs that race Optis against 49ers and A Class cats on average lap systems. At my club we sometimes have 2.4 Metres racing Lasers. I'd reckon they are no fairer than racing a longboard against a dinghy.

A board will not win regardless of skill level, in my experience, because in the winds they may win the guys who can't windsurf spend too much time in the water. From what I've seen at most clubs that have only one or two boards, the boards are the ones that under-perform dramatically and are therefore not much of an issue in terms of upsetting the results.

There is also a system where you average the boards and the boats and give the winner to the sailor who out-performs their group the most. Yes, class results are the best but it's all a matter of degree. If I was cloned (a horrible thing for the world, but just to make a point....) I'd probably feel that I would have a better and fairer match if I was on my Raceboard and racing myself on my Canoe, or on my WIndsurfer One Design racing myself on a Laser, than if I was racing the Canoe against the Laser or the Windsurfer against the Raceboard. 

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 10>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy